Northeast and Southeast Minneapolis - General Topics

[EOst]

I think they're trying to encourage people to use the Nicollet Island park.

[xandrex]

How about the inverse? I kinda like the idea of putting two-way streetcars on 1st to allow faster speeds (less traffic congestion) and better facilitate the turn to/from Central, unimpeded by traffic. Streetcar ROW could be the southernmost two lanes of 1st Ave, abutting the gross blank walls of Pinnacle (allowing for a narrow slip lane in there to access their parking ramp).

Looking at the land uses along 1st Ave NE today, the attractive/active frontages are all on the north side of the street, soon to be joined by the Superior Plating blocks. On the south side of 1st Ave, it's all pretty ugly stuff, and nothing there today demands on-street parking. I'm thinking about political feasibility here of trying to fit in an exclusive or minimally shared ROW for streetcars. The southern half of 1st Ave seems like a match. In parts of the corridor, you could retain two lanes for cars, with the northern/outer lane allowing off-peak parking and right turns (at Univeristy, at Main)

Putting all of the streetcar on 1st would put it out of the way of most of development that's occurred so far in the area, instead placing it on a street that pretty much nobody is on for walking purposes (whereas Hennepin--and Central, for that matter--are relatively busy pedestrian streets. Just seems like its asking to further limit the walkshed since it's just that much mentally further from where business and residential are. With the railroad tracks right there limiting access, I assume most residential people using this will live directly in the commercial district or the western part of Marcy Holmes. I'm just close enough that I'd walk to it instead of my normal bus if it was more comfortable (loads less crushing, perhaps?), but putting it on 1st would place it just far enough that it wouldn't be worth it.

Can somebody explain to me why, besides a general "OMG one way streets are bad" gut reaction, we'd go through a bunch of rigmarole to make this conversion and generally muck everything up in this area, rather than a much more elegant solution like the one Twincitizen proposed?

To me, a pair of calmed one ways with well integrated transit and bike lanes seems like a great solution here that doesn't require reinventing the wheel, and will also still allow for non-excruciating through traffic for automobiles (I know that's counter to the wishes of many on the forum).

In general, I'd say a two-way street > one-way street all else equal. But it just seems like given the current setup, the cheapest, easiest, and most probable solution would be to keep the two streets as one-ways and use some of the space for expanded sidewalks, good transit, and protected bike lanes as you said.

I actually think turning Hennepin into a two-way would be a pretty big mistake. I said it earlier in this thread, but a lane in each direction plus a turn lane would mostly be a waste in this neighborhood. Based on my experience, rush hour traffic isn't really turning, other than a few people.

Main, Lourdes, and 2nd just don't have much traffic. Some people take Hennepin to turn right on University, but that seems to happen more on Central and left turns just don't happen often since most going further NE from downtown appear to take Washington to the Plymouth, Broadway, or Lowry bridges. Nobody turns left on 4th because it doesn't go anywhere (unless you are trying to get into the US Bank parking. Fifth gets a handful of left turns, but it's a bike boulevard, so it's actually not many. Most people continue on either by turning left onto Central, or (more often than not) continuing on Hennepin.

So a left turn lane is largely a waste of space. During peak, it would just force the same amount of cars into fewer lanes. It one of the few river crossings we have, so traffic will naturally choke up there. Unlike Hennepin from Franklin to Lake, there aren't a whole lot of parking lots to drive into and there are few roads to turn left onto that go anywhere because of the railroad (unlike people who would love to use Hennepin to turn left into the Wedge).

Let's make these really awesome one-ways loaded with amenities for walkers, bikers, and transit-takers and call it a day.

[twincitizen]

Agreed. I've had the rough concept of routing the streetcar tracks on 1st dancing in my head, but I've never actually figured out how it all works. In all likelihood it doesn't work well.

You're right that the best result in this specific location is probably retaining the one-way setup, especially with streetcars coming through. However, I can see how using the "threat" of two-ways could be an important bargaining chip with county traffic engineers. If you (the neighborhood) start with "let's do traffic calming and better sidewalks and maybe bike lanes", you're very likely to end up with a lot less than that. If you start with "we want nothing less than two-way streets", then the traffic engineers are going to have to offer up a pretty great plan for improving the one-ways to the extent that it pleases the neighborhood and Jacob Frey.

[xandrex]

^I'll agree with that. I suppose it's good to over-ask and hope you can settle for what you actually want. This area has a lot of potential, even with the one-ways, but there are several small flaws that people who won't drive through on a regular basis probably wouldn't even notice (but they definitely decrease the safety and flow of the area for everyone).

[mattaudio]

And even if we keep the one ways, there's a lot of pavement to be de-nasty-sized at the skewed intersections with Central.
http://nacto.org/usdg/intersections/com ... -analysis/

[MNdible]

^I'll agree with that. I suppose it's good to over-ask and hope you can settle for what you actually want. This area has a lot of potential, even with the one-ways, but there are several small flaws that people who won't drive through on a regular basis probably wouldn't even notice (but they definitely decrease the safety and flow of the area for everyone).

That makes sense if you're assuming that everybody understands it's a negotiation. Unfortunately, you'll get neighbors who don't get that their starting position is just that -- a place to start, who don't understand that their street is actually part of a regional network and will fall on the sword (or become bitter and disillusioned) when they don't get exactly what they're asking for.

[xandrex]

That makes sense if you're assuming that everybody understands it's a negotiation. Unfortunately, you'll get neighbors who don't get that their starting position is just that -- a place to start, who don't understand that their street is actually part of a regional network and will fall on the sword (or become bitter and disillusioned) when they don't get exactly what they're asking for.

Yeah, that's sort of why I gave my actual opinion on what we should have. Plus, I just can't advocate for a "stronger bargaining chip" that actually would be less effective for the area. It would be a whole other ballgame if Hennepin/1st weren't one-way couplets for one of just four general-use streets between the U and the North Loop (seven if you include the highway and the two ped bridges) to get across the river into downtown.

[mullen]

i'm really impressed with fair state brewing's space to go along with the great beer. one of the nicest of the new breweries, imo.

[uptowncarag]

Nyes Polonaise Room to close. I wonder if this is a business decision or a land deal for a new project. It would seem this area is becoming more and more desirable and expensive.

[mamundsen]

Nyes Polonaise Room to close. I wonder if this is a business decision or a land deal for a new project. It would seem this area is becoming more and more desirable and expensive.

With the addition of the streetcar it has to be speculative... right?

[twincitizen]

Nye's discussion split off here: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3655

[lordmoke]

The triangular lot at 430 E Hennepin mentioned earlier has a "For Lease- New Development" sign from Java Properties on it now. Nothing on their website about this site.

[MNdible]

Does anybody know what the future is of the big chunk of land north of the Riverside Power Plant? It looks like NSP still owns it, and I assume that this used to be the land that they stored coal on, so it's probably polluted. But it seems like long term, they have no more use for it. Is there a formalized agreement to turn it over to the Park Board?

[Wedgeguy]

Does anybody know what the future is of the big chunk of land north of the Riverside Power Plant? It looks like NSP still owns it, and I assume that this used to be the land that they stored coal on, so it's probably polluted. But it seems like long term, they have no more use for it. Is there a formalized agreement to turn it over to the Park Board?

My guess is the same as your, with the 3 Rivers Park Board maybe expressing interest in the area. But like you say, who will pay for the environmental cleanup. That will be what takes a lot of time and negotiating.

[Silophant]

Some of the former coal storage site from the High Bridge plant in St. Paul got turned into a dog park, so it's not unprecedented. My guess is something will happen before too long, since Xcel generally isn't terribly interested in paying taxes on land that it isn't planning on putting to use.

[mattaudio]

Pracna on Main has closed.

[EOst]

Well, there goes my normal date night. Do you know why?

[seanrichardryan]

Pracna on Main has closed.

Perhaps the fruitflies stages a coup.

[mplsjaromir]

^^^lol

[Didier]

Is that the one that doesn't have a happy hour? I went there last summer when tables at Tuggs and Astor were filled, and they wanted like $7 for a Stella and other boring beers. So we left.