Motiv Apartments - 2320 Colfax Avenue S

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 2:51 pm

I got a similar vibe watching this Jim Jones movie as I do reading some of the MRRDC/Healy Project/Nicole Curtis/Brian Finistad stuff.
Well Brian at least cared about the rooming house as an affordable housing option. In my discussions with him he didn't seem to care so much about "preservation" per se. His main concern is making affordable housing available in places like the Wedge that are getting more expensive. I don't entirely agree with his recollection of events but I've at least found him to be someone who is genuine in his motivations.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » March 3rd, 2015, 3:05 pm

Yeah, I don't think Brian really agrees with the other parties on most issues which is why I think it's so weird that he's hitched his horse to their post. I'd also like to think he's smart enough to see the difference between teardowns by the city on the North side which become empty lots because the city is too lazy to get creative, versus a teardown here done by a developer because of a specific development project. But I don't see evidence of that either. He seems to have gotten himself caught up in the victim mentality that the rest of these people have.

Ultimately anyone who decides that "preserve every building at all costs regardless of the situation" has chosen a weird hill to die on.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 3:23 pm

I'd also like to think he's smart enough to see the difference between teardowns by the city on the North side which become empty lots because the city is too lazy to get creative, versus a teardown here done by a developer because of a specific development project. But I don't see evidence of that either.
I think he's looking at this slightly differently. He sees very affordable housing -- the most affordable housing in SW Minneapolis I'd guess - being torn down for development when there are hundreds of available lots on the Northside. I understand the market forces at work but from his perspective, the city hasn't done jack squat to improve the disinvestment situation up there while it has, in his view, gone to some length to bulldoze housing for people who will migrate to poorer areas, further concentrating poverty. He's saying, "Hey Minneapolis city council! Preserve affordable housing in gentrifying areas and work to push some developers OUR way!"

And yes, I think "gentrification" is a reasonable term to use for what's starting to happen in the Wedge. People have been pushed out of affordable housing for more expensive units. That's a new dynamic that wasn't an issue during all of the development south of 28th. We may hear of more of it as development creeps further north to 28th. The question, of course, is what level of gentrification we are willing to accept.

I agree that aligning himself with the rest of the crowd muddies the waters but he probably wouldn't be able to do much going it alone. Ideally the affordable housing issue would have been raised much earlier by people who genuinely care about it. Going forward, I hope the city will tackle the issue because it is becoming more and more important as the city grows.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » March 3rd, 2015, 3:31 pm

Yeah good luck pushing development to the North side by stopping it in other places. That's not how housing markets work.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 3:34 pm

Yeah good luck pushing development to the North side by stopping it in other places. That's not how housing markets work.
He's not saying stop development in other places. He's saying don't destroy affordable housing while at the same time failing to support development on the North side. Both tend to concentrate poverty.

There are things the city can do to promote Northside development and there are things the city can do to preserve affordable housing. The city should learn from this experience.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby twincitizen » March 3rd, 2015, 3:38 pm

There are still so many vacant lots, parking lots and dilapidated single-story retail buildings to tear down before we will ever have a serious "gentrification" problem. This is literally the only example people can point to where actual low-cost housing units were torn down to make way for newer housing. There was a small apartment building that came down on France Ave last year too (45XX France?) but no tears were spilled there.

Aside from the very occasional corner lot duplex getting torn down here or there (in southwest only) getting torn down, I really think we are a LONG way from actual displacement of people by way of demolition. Obviously existing older apartments in desirable neighborhoods will continue to raise their rents as they see fit, but I'm not aware of any solution there is besides "build more housing!"

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » March 3rd, 2015, 3:44 pm

I was gonna write a bunch of words here, but I'm not really arguing with Brian, I'm arguing with your presentation of Brian, which is like you handing me a pile of hay and I out of the blue decide to build a straw man out of it, and I don't think that's good faith on my part.

I wish Brian or really anybody would come here and discuss but they won't, but I'll hold out hope and not debate what we think Brian thinks.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » March 3rd, 2015, 3:48 pm

But in general, I'll never be convinced that preventing new construction is the solution to affordability. To say so is to assume there is infinite demand of an area, and especially in Minneapolis, I just can't get behind that idea.

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2625
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 3rd, 2015, 7:16 pm

This specific case may be textbook g*cation, with a very clear group of folks being evicted for a higher rent building. Though on the scale of 1 to bring out the pitchforks, it isn't too bad given what's going in. And in any case, every single other proposal on the table for the site (since the owner was selling no matter what due to health concerns) would have involved evicting those people. I would think the Christensen or Curtis proposals would have failed the g*cation test worse than Lander's given the end unit price/size/etc.

Like I've said before, none of the preservation advocates (at least none I saw) ever peeped up about re-legalizing SRO housing, including Brian (though his voice has been less in the spotlight than other activists). I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on how to improve how the market can respond to housing demand to keep places like this affordable. I went on a tw rant about how LHE folks should cast their gaze at the $1m++ mansions, $750k++ houses, etc in Lowry Hill (and ECCO, to a lesser extent) as big causes of local price issues in the Wedge. How many projects have occurred on the west, dare I say slightly more desirable side, of Hennepin?

acs
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1364
Joined: March 26th, 2014, 8:41 pm

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby acs » March 3rd, 2015, 7:27 pm

Well now this is front page news on the Strib website:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... page=1&c=y

Now everyone can see just how batshit crazy this has gotten.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 8:48 pm

But in general, I'll never be convinced that preventing new construction is the solution to affordability.
Again, who said anything about preventing new construction?

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 8:49 pm

I wish Brian or really anybody would come here and discuss but they won't, but I'll hold out hope and not debate what we think Brian thinks.
Fair enough about not speaking for Brian, I agree entirely.

He's not likely to come here or to streets.mn due to the culture here. Dems da breaks, but I've brought up the issue many times before. What possible gain could there be for him to subject himself to undeserved ridicule?

User avatar
Nick
Capella Tower
Posts: 2719
Joined: May 30th, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Downtown, Minneapolis

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby Nick » March 3rd, 2015, 8:57 pm

Bill is doing a podcast with Brian Finstad and Jeff Skrenes I believe this week, though I don't know exactly what the conversation will be.
Nick Magrino
[email protected]

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 9:00 pm

I would think the Christensen or Curtis proposals would have failed the g*cation test worse than Lander's given the end unit price/size/etc.
No argument there and Brian agrees with you. He didn't like those proposals either.
Like I've said before, none of the preservation advocates (at least none I saw) ever peeped up about re-legalizing SRO housing, including Brian (though his voice has been less in the spotlight than other activists). I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on how to improve how the market can respond to housing demand to keep places like this affordable.
I can't be sure but I suspect Brian and I are of like mind when it comes to trusting the market to do anything reasonable WRT affordable housing. The market just doesn't seem to work correctly for that. I actually asked him about efforts to re-legalize boarding houses and he responded positively. Whether anything will move, we'll have to see.
I went on a tw rant about how LHE folks should cast their gaze at the $1m++ mansions, $750k++ houses, etc in Lowry Hill (and ECCO, to a lesser extent) as big causes of local price issues in the Wedge. How many projects have occurred on the west, dare I say slightly more desirable side, of Hennepin?
I've pointed that out numerous times, including on this board. :)

I'm actually starting to think the major Uptown boom is over for the time being. That action has moved to the North Loop and especially St. Anthony. We'll see the occaisional small project like on Girard but current zoning won't allow anything north of 28th or south of 24th and 24th is too far away to drive the kind of major investment we saw on the Greenway. I believe prices will begin to come down slowly though obviously nowhere near to as cheap as that boarding house was.

What I can't quite puzzle out is if the Healy Project and/or neighbors wanted to preserve the structure and/or get rid of the boarding house, why didn't they buy it much earlier? Surely they could have grabbed it for much less money even five years ago. I know the answer is, "humans always wait for the crisis to act," but perhaps they'll learn something and plan ahead.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 9:01 pm

Bill is doing a podcast with Brian Finstad and Jeff Skrenes I believe this week, though I don't know exactly what the conversation will be.
Yeah? That's great! Last I heard on the Facebook, Brian pretty much shut down the idea of him writing something for streets.mn. I'm glad he's engaging. Jeff is an interesting guy too. Again, I don't agree with all of his views but he makes you think and really cares about his neighborhood.

seanrichardryan
IDS Center
Posts: 4092
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Merriam Park, St. Paul

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby seanrichardryan » March 3rd, 2015, 9:50 pm

...
What I can't quite puzzle out is if the Healy Project and/or neighbors wanted to preserve the structure and/or get rid of the boarding house, why didn't they buy it much earlier? Surely they could have grabbed it for much less money even five years ago. I know the answer is, "humans always wait for the crisis to act," but perhaps they'll learn something and plan ahead.
Having lived directly across the street for 7 years, with an eye on real estate in general, and a Gladys Kravtiz type disposition, I never knew it was for sale until it was slated for demo.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 10:39 pm

Sure, but the Healy Project exists in part to save Healy houses, no? Why not ask the owner at some point if he wants to sell simply for the purpose of saving the structure? People get asked to sell their houses all the time.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby David Greene » March 3rd, 2015, 11:44 pm

Jeff is an interesting guy too. Again, I don't agree with all of his views but he makes you think and really cares about his neighborhood.
Speak of the devil...

http://north-by-northside.blogspot.com/ ... d.html?m=1

Now, I disagree with most of what he says here but this rang out to me as very true:
What does stand out to me, however, are some of the [Wedgelive blog] posts, I don't want to link to more than one, where specific Lowry Hills neighborhood board actions (and members) are dragged into the fray. By mocking those folks, the blogger is essentially making grassroots neighborhood participation more difficult.
That's absolutely the case. I've been literally shouted down at neighborhood meetings and I can only imagine what it feels like to get that treatment in a space viewable by thousands of people. It's already tremendously hard to get people engaged in the work of neighborhoods. Wedgelive, regardless of how much we may agree or disagree with its content, makes it that much harder. I hope the good folks at Wedgelive consider this and tone it down a bit. It's fine to criticize but what's there goes beyond that to flat-out mocking and ridicule. That doesn't help anyone except the egos of the blogger and perhaps a few readers.

mplsjaromir
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1138
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 8:03 am

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby mplsjaromir » March 4th, 2015, 12:05 am

Isn't the entire point of Wedgelive is to point out how insiders use their influence to shut out people who may be interested in participating, but because of parliamentary rules they impose, makes it very difficult. Earnestly trying to call out bs takes a tremendous amount of energy. Using absurdity to point out absurdity is often the only way to make any kind of a statement. Snark is an effective foil against nonsense.

Snelbian
Rice Park
Posts: 439
Joined: March 2nd, 2013, 9:03 pm
Location: Mac Grove

Re: 2320 Colfax Avenue Apartments

Postby Snelbian » March 4th, 2015, 8:23 am

For what it's worth, here in St. Paul's portion of the internet Citizens for a Better Snelling Avenue has come out in favor of historical preservation generally but against the way Curtis has handled Colfax. One more group of preservationists put off by the badcrazy.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests