Wabasha Center (Former Macy's) - Downtown St. Paul

[xandrex]

^Why is using part of the space as a practice facility "non-productive"? Obviously it could go to potentially better uses, but it sounds like it wouldn't take up the whole space.

Mostly this smacks of the St. Paul trying to kinda get their own Mayo Clinic Square for the east metro. Haha.

[David Greene]

ILRT and general demand for urban living are helping, but Downtown St. Paul has SO much surface parking and existing buildings that can be converted to residential before anyone would try to build something worthwhile on this block. Finding a reuse such as this for the next 15-20 years may not be the worst answer.

I guess I'm not as pessimistic about this parcel. No, we won't see another tower in St. Paul for a very long time but this parcel's proximity to LRT could make for some very nice modest inflill. I could certainly see a modest amount of housing with some boutiques and restaurants on the street level. Ditto for the station area across the street. Biggest problem may be NIMBYs hating on "generic" building design.

[David Greene]

Mostly this smacks of the St. Paul trying to kinda get their own Mayo Clinic Square for the east metro. Haha.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm not thrilled with the basketball practice facility either.

I mean it's not going to be a disaster if this happens but it does make it much more difficult to remove this eyesore.

[twincitizen]

Our posts got a little out of order as I went back to edit, so I'm quoting to respond to David's post that came in just after mine

Looks like St. Paul is headed toward converting its retail into uses that kill street and skyway activity.

Right, because leaving it sit empty for another 5 or 10 years certainly helps street/skyway activity?

It would be better to let it sit a few more years than lock it up long-term for a non-productive use. The building should be demolished anyway.

I can see why St. Paul is having second thoughts about tearing it down when redevelopment is so uncertain. LRT and general demand for urban living are helping move things in the right direction, but Downtown St. Paul has SO MUCH surface parking and existing buildings that can be converted to residential before anyone would try to build something worthwhile on this block. Finding a somewhat compatible reuse such as this for the next 15-20 years may not be the worst answer.

I think as long as there is an understanding among all parties that the true goal remains to tear this building down (at the appropriate time), then a less than ideal reuse is totally fine in the interim, even if interim is more than a decade.

[at40man]

Mostly this smacks of the St. Paul trying to kinda get their own Mayo Clinic Square for the east metro. Haha.

You might have a case if the Wild weren't trying to locate a practice facility in downtown St Paul for the past decade.

Looks like St. Paul is headed toward converting its retail into uses that kill street and skyway activity.

That certainly seems hyperbolic. I'm not quite sure how filling a previously-vacant building kills street and skyway activity, nor do I understand how a practice facility is anymore "unproductive" than a television studio, bank vault, or jail. Fugly as it is, I don't see anyone wanting to spend $13 million to demolish the building. It may just make it more convenient for MN Wild players to live in St Paul; when I lived in Galtier from 06-08 there already were a number of Wild players with apartments there.

That said - why is the price for demolition so steep? The only thing I can think of is that it must be an incredibly solid structure. My mental image is that of a wrecking ball bouncing off the exterior.

[NickP]

Will Miley Cyrus be on the wrecking ball?!! lol

[ProspectPete]

I know what I don't know.... and I know that I have no idea about why retail businesses move to location X or leave location Y.
But I do know that I vote with my retail dollars, and I would be happy to patronize a mid sized realtor like REI if it were to come to the old Macy's building. There is nothing particularly satisfying about going to the REI in Roseville in the industrial park.
The Macy's building is more than large enough to house something like REI or Dicks. Big enough for a huge indoor climbing wall as well. Plenty of parking as well. I believe that demographic (that patronizes REI) wouldn't sigh & throw up their arms and stay home because they had to park in a ramp instead of a parking lot.

[at40man]

Not to mention it could also be a good opportunity for Gander Mountain, which happens to have its headquarters in downtown St Paul. They could potentially move their general offices from 180 East Fifth to the upper levels of the Macy's building, and allow for re-opening a lower level or two as a store - and cater it a bit more towards people living in the city who still enjoy doing outdoorsy things.

[Didier]

https://twitter.com/mspbjsamblack/statu ... 5391771648

Thoughts?

[mulad]

Mostly a good thing, even if it just turns out to be Walgreens moving across the street. The Port Authority bought the property cheap for $3 million in January last year, and they're selling 10% of the retail space for $2.5 million (though they're covering $500k in closing costs). The Port Authority's president teased that there should be more announcements in the coming months, so they'll get their initial investment back.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... paul-macys

I'm curious what the street frontage will be like. If they use the full depth of the building, I'm guessing it would need to be 90-100 feet wide to get that nearly 18,000 s.f. space. The frontage on the current Walgreens is about 65 feet (there's another storefront and doorway facing Wabasha on the south end of that building too, but at least one appeared vacant last fall according to Street View).

[Minnehahaha]

The NLD name seems to pop up in relation to Walgreens projects in a number of places, so it's likely the mystery's over even before it's begun. Still, I'd say that it's a good thing for both downtown and Walgreens. Too many of their local stores are outdated messes, so to have both downtown Minneapolis and Saint Paul locations brought up to a new, quality format could do a lot to restore their image.

[gcm]

Is it possible to re-skin a building like Macy's? I don't mind the looks of the building, but I'm wondering if it had windows, would that increase the chances of attracting tenants? The current design is best suited for a department store or a data center. I've already seen it pop up on some preservation lists, so I'm sure it would be a battle.

[Wedgeguy]

I would think that the skyway in the Macy's building would have one of the higher pedestrian counts in St. Paul. I can see the back space against Cedar being a good location for smaller shops and take out food or even a possible small food court on the Wabasha Street level that would be against Cedar also. With it being between Wells Faro's tower and the present Ecolab Campus there is a good number of people that I have seen in the past using this space to get around DT.

If it stays retail space for the most part, there would be no real need for windows. The outside walls would be where the back house operation would be anyway. Only if they made the top level office would windows on that level be necessary. Even there skylights could be used to bring in natural light to the office space.

[MNdible]

Wedgeguy is probably right that for many retail uses, windows would be a liability.

That said, and setting aside preservationist objections, there's probably no structural reason that windows couldn't be cut all over the facade. It's very unlikely that the facade is loadbearing, so it would just be a matter of cutting in some windows and adding some lintels to carry the brick above the new openings.

[Wedgeguy]

After looking at Google map, it looks as though there are two levels above the skyway level that could be turned into office very easily. The 4th floor would be a full floor plate, minus the space that is the parking ramp that runs the length of Cedar. The 5th level would be a figure 8 space that would have 2 light well that would bring light into the 4th and 5th levels. This would allow for there not to be any windows having to be cut into the façade. Think of it as the same as City Center's office space above the retail. There are very few windows for that space, but they do have some skylights along part of it. I would think that would be a great space for some creative company that wants an wide open and unique space.

The Wild can still use the lower basement levels for their practice facilities, or again they could use the 4th and 5th levels for their practice facility. There they would have to reinforce the 4th or 5th floor and remove some columns. But they can also on the 5th level create a large spanned roof with some beams or barrel vault that would allow light to be over the ice.
Same problem with the basement level as to getting a large enough clear span, but that would be up to engineers to design. But that is what we call, thinking outside the box. While this will not be cheap. I think it would be cheaper than tearing the building down or having it sit half empty. I think it would be worth a look at. You could have observation windows around part of the practice floor to stimulate fans to come and watch them there and at their games. There are two sets of elevator banks in the Macy's building it's self, with a third for the parking ramp. The set on the 6th street side could go up to the administrative offices for the Wild. The bank of elevators that a butts the Wells Fargo podium would be for the fans to use to get to a Wilds store, and an area that would have a glass walled space that fans could go and watch the team practice. Having a skylight of some sort over the ice would allow for glass walls looking over the ice, much like the Twins office to at their stadium.

Again some of this will not be cheap, but when you look at what it would cost to build new it would make a lot of sense in PR for the Wild, and make the DT a hockey fan destination.

I would have to assume that on the Wabasha Street level that the sort at that level would go all the way back to the parking ramp and the skyway level would have to take into consideration any planned skyway route thru that level. So you would be dissecting the skyway level into 2 different sides on the way from the 6th street skyway connection to the Well Fargo podium. With the increased number of people living in DT St. Paul, I can see an increase in interest in some retail downtown.
Short of the Wild using the basement and the upper floors being used for office. The Cedar and Basement levels will be the most difficult challenges to fill. Any thought on anything that I've proposed or ideas for the basement levels. I'd love to read some feedback from you all. I know that there are others out there that can think outside the box and have some great ideas to share.

[at40man]

I've already seen it pop up on some preservation lists, so I'm sure it would be a battle.

There are some rabid Victor Gruen fans who are probably responsible for that. There are a few who will defend ANY and ALL of his work. That said, I don't believe it would really be a battle. It's really not an architecturally noteworthy building otherwise.

[mattaudio]

Whatever happens, one of the highest priorities needs to be redoing the 6th Street frontage especially with regard to the ramp ingress/egress that pushes the sidewalk into a dark tunnel. https://goo.gl/maps/i9Mit

[Wedgeguy]

Whatever happens, one of the highest priorities needs to be redoing the 6th Street frontage especially with regard to the ramp ingress/egress that pushes the sidewalk into a dark tunnel. https://goo.gl/maps/i9Mit

As much as it would be nice to move that sidewalk. Without reengineering the ramp, I see little hope that they would spend money on trying to move the sidewalk. It would cost them a large chunk of change to do that. It would be better spent on making the inside of the building more efficient and approachable from Cedar and Wabasha where there are pedestrian entrances.

[Buildit]

Seems like a lot of retrenchment in St Paul vs. growth. Walgreens is just moving across the street into a space vacated by a significant retailer, Ecolab is leaving multiple buildings on Wabasha to take over a building of a one time significant employer. I realize the City needs to put a positive spin on it but just different vacant space at this point.

[Azel]

My hunch is that this is almost certainly a relocation of the Walgreen's from across the street, which would open up the current WG building (owned by the Geller family) for redevelopment... but to what? Apartments? New retail/office? The three-story building at 421 Wabasha was built in 1941 and would probably be demoed, right? It's not pretty by any means.