Southdale Area - Edina

[Anondson]

KSTP, destroying the English language with suburban prejudices again.

[sdho]

Perhaps they should have gone for a more inclusive term, like Katherine Kersten's "stack and pack".

[mattaudio]

Wow, even though there's already larger buildings on these parcels to be replaced, this will be transformative. It's time Edina and Hennepin County reinvision 66th St and York/Xerxes Ave in this area. Maybe a roundabout at the intersection? Maybe some slip lanes to encourage sidewalk activation with the new land uses?

[RailBaronYarr]

So this is kitty corner/kattywampus/[insert regional term] from this, right? Gotta say, kudos to Edina. Now somebody please go improve transit in the area beyond what's there and calm the streets a bit.

[Wedgeguy]

So this is kitty corner/kattywampus/[insert regional term] from this, right? Gotta say, kudos to Edina. Now somebody please go improve transit in the area beyond what's there and calm the streets a bit.

You are correct. Same street intersection but very different looking that is for sure.

[Anondson]

Lots to be said about York development in Edina right now. Good stuff. Sidewalks and transit will need to match.

[twincitizen]

First thought: it is absolutely imperative that they reserve right of way along the north edge of the site for a 65th Street extension. I'd prefer a full street, but require a high-quality bike/ped connection at the very least.
Also, this proposal does not include the properties at 6444 and 6500 Xerxes: https://gis.hennepin.us/property/map/de ... 2824240121 That's going to be pretty awkward to leave that little slice in place along Xerxes/York there...if I were Edina, I would require that these parcels be incorporated. Otherwise they will become "orphan parcels" whose only access is via busy Xerxes/York there. They could still be combined/redeveloped independently, but it wouldn't be very substantial. Probably better to just roll them into this development and get the 65th Street extension taken care of now.


Intersection stuff:
Hennepin County needs to get working on that roundabout ASAP. The upcoming 66th St construction limit only goes to ~ Washburn Avenue (2 blocks e of York). The project already costs most than originally projected and tacking on that roundabout would probably not be well-received. I think Edina would have to force the issue with Hennepin County. Roundabouts typically require more land than a 4-way intersection...though in this case I think a roundabout would actually take LESS space than the existing intersection, due to its skew, double-lefts and free-rights, etc. A double-lane roundabout would be superior in every way to the existing intersection.

My guess is that the intersection probably is not in bad enough shape to necessitate reconstruction at this time. Hennepin County would likely want to do it in conjunction with rebuilding York and/or 66th St west of York. No idea what timeline either of those projects are on, if they are on the radar at all.

[sdho]

The existing Richfield 66th Street project is already quite large at Hennepin County standards (looking at >$50 million). The section that far west is, I believe, from the 1980s (same as the section east to Penn Ave). Beginning to end, construction will touch four years (2016, 2017, 2018, 2019), with heavy construction taking two full seasons. So I don't think there much efficiency in trying to add it into that project.

Interestingly, part of the justification from Richfield staff as to why to end the cycletrack at Penn was the sense that 66th adjacent to Southdale and the 66th/York intersection were so hellish, it would be inappropriate to end a bike facility there.

Edina could certainly fund the project themselves, or seek it as a separate project. But given the fact that it's already running with plenty of extra capacity, and there aren't acute safety issues (like the old Portland/66th light), I don't see that happening. Certainly, they seem to be having no trouble with economic development with the current intersection, so there's not a huge incentive to invest infrastructure in the hopes of a big payoff.

Another option might be to simply remove the free rights -- at least on the SE and NW corners. That could potentially be funded under the Edina pedestrian/cyclist safety fund. Combined with better treatments at the sharp corners, that could make the intersection much friendlier to pedestrians.

[Anondson]

Is there hope for Richfield to prep the area for "upzoning"? Maybe to make it possible the "missing middle" can happen to soften the drastic density change happening...

[sdho]

Theoretically, the comprehensive plan calls for upzoning in the Southdale-bordering area of Richfield, from 65th to 70th.



The 66th Street corridor would be higher-density apartments on north side, "community commercial/office" on south side. And the frontage along Xerxes would be low-medium density (townhomes or something) between 66th and 70th.

Oddly, the frontage immediately on Xerxes between 65th and Crosstown is envisioned to remain SFH/duplexes. I would think that would be a better location for upzoning than the much quieter residential Xerxes a few blocks south.

Of course, except Southdale Square mall, they're still all tiny lots, so a developer would have to be pretty motivated to make that work.

[Mdcastle]

Richfield won't be satisfied until every last affordable single family house is gone. Granted 66th and the Airport they were sacrificed for transportation needs, but you have Best Buy and Target and now this.

As for the interchange at France, any suggestions what to do if we get rid of Xerxes. The present diamond clearly can't handle more traffic. All the alternatives that can handle more car traffic- diamond with multiple turn lanes, SPUIs, diverging diamonds, partial cloverleafs, and diamonds with multiple turn lanes are allegedly unfriendly to pedestrians.

[sdho]

As for the interchange at France, any suggestions what to do if we get rid of Xerxes. The present diamond clearly can't handle more traffic. All the alternatives that can handle more car traffic- diamond with multiple turn lanes, SPUIs, diverging diamonds, partial cloverleafs, and diamonds with multiple turn lanes are allegedly unfriendly to pedestrians.

According to a MnDOT engineer at a meeting I attended last week, it sounds like France/Crosstown was nearly ready to go, but is being delayed pending decisions about whether to pursue additional lanes on either 494 or Crosstown.

I was not clear what is envisioned. Multiple turn-lane diamond might work, but just about anything else would be a really harsh transition to the mostly single-family home neighborhoods to the north.

And, looking at the partial cloverleaf 494/France, I think "allegedly unfriendly" to pedestrians is an understatement. On the SW corner, pedestrians must walk past the "pedestrians prohibited" sign on a 5', immediate back-of-curb sidewalk to an unmarked crosswalk down a freeway ramp, turn 180° to see traffic and then make their way across.

[mattaudio]

At France, there are tight constraints north (SFH) and south (hospital) of Crosstown. Why not do two bridges in a sort of large traffic circle configuration, a variation of the dogbone we use with a single bridge at some interchanges?

[mattaudio]

Richfield won't be satisfied until every last affordable single family house is gone.

Next thing you know, even Oxboro will be full of luxury 6-story high rises (section 8, of course).

[Mdcastle]

I don't think so. Bloomington HRA has occasional bought a house that a lower middle class family could afford and torn it down in hopes of someone building another house for the rich (down the street from my one was torn down 10 years ago and so far no takers so it's being an empty lot instead of someone's home). But in the past 30 years the only significant city-initiated removal of houses were for the apartment building north of 98th and west of Pleasant, and a new fire station on Nicollet. But those were a couple of houses, not multiple entire blocks.

[Anondson]

Another medical office near the corner of 66th and York sold.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... lding.html

Bought by a company that just bought a collection of property in SLP near West End to develop into offices.

[mister.shoes]

It just occurred to me that with all these potential housing units on the NW corner and the large proposal for the SE corner (and retail on the other two corners), Edina should seriously consider doing to this intersection what they did to France and take out the free right turns—especially the NW and SE free rights that drivers can take at full speed.

[RailBaronYarr]

It just occurred to me that with all these potential housing units on the NW corner and the large proposal for the SE corner (and retail on the other two corners), Edina should seriously consider doing to this intersection what they did to France and take out the free right turns—especially the NW and SE free rights that drivers can take at full speed.

When will twincitizen write that streets.mn post I see in the hopper!?

[Anondson]

Yes.

[HiawathaGuy]

Parasole alum plans restaurant at Southdale Center
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... edina.html

Casual pizza and pasta restaurant Z Italiano is under construction in the southwest corner of Edina's Southdale Center near the AMC Southdale 16.

Z Italiano owner Zach Saueressig said the 5,000-square-foot space has been vacant since California Pizza Kitchen left Minnesota in 2012. ...