Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[David Greene]

[To get from the uptown transit station to Nicollet and 7th typically takes me about 30 minutes. You should be able to get from the core of uptown to the core of downtown in 15 minutes max. There needs to be something that goes directly between the two with no stops or that at least has a dedicated right of way that makes the trip competitive with auto travel times.

I completely agree that the 17 is really slow. I avoid it like the plague. The 6 is a much faster way to get from Uptown station downtown and the 12 is even much better than that.

I don't think we have to match auto times at all. Transit has several things in its favor, including:

- It's cheaper
- No parking hassles
- No worries about DWI

Parking is also a significant time *loss* for autos that you're not counting. It's one of those costs that we don't generally account for. If you add this in, the current bus *is* faster than getting there with a car.

I take the 6 out to Southdale a lot. It's as fast as driving and it drops me off right where I want to go. It really is a better option than a car and I feel even more strongly about that with respect to downtown.

[twincitizen]

A new opinion piece on St. Louis Park Patch: http://stlouispark.patch.com/articles/w ... l-e6755f81

[Nick]

A new opinion piece on St. Louis Park Patch: http://stlouispark.patch.com/articles/w ... l-e6755f81

Snap judgment:

Headline: Oh God kill me.
Byline: Oh okay never mind.

[David Greene]

Snap judgment:

Headline: Oh God kill me.
Byline: Oh okay never mind.

It's really not too bad. The central point of the article is that supporters and opponents often have very different views of what transit is for. That's pretty accurate as far as my own experience goes.

[Nick]

Snap judgment:

Headline: Oh God kill me.
Byline: Oh okay never mind.

It's really not too bad. The central point of the article is that supporters and opponents often have very different views of what transit is for. That's pretty accurate as far as my own experience goes.

Yeah the article is fine, but just seeing that headline pop out on my little phone screen was disheartening. 'Sall good.

That said, I really wonder about redoing the alternatives analysis and recalculating the CEIs to account for all the new development on the Minneapolis side of the line. Dead horses and such, I know. But meh.

[mattaudio]

Did anyone ever post ideas for the 7th St/Olson/6th Ave N/Royalston cluster?

[Didier]

Ha, I just found a twincitizen Star Tribune comment on today's commentary about the SWLRT route:

twincitizen1Dec. 14, 12 3:32 AM

I think we're all missing the point that it should have been routed through Uptown (known as the 3C alignment) the whole time. Hennepin County cooked the books to make it seem as if this wilderness routing through the lakes would have the same ridership as stations at Hennepin and at Lyndale. Look it up, it's all in the report! They claimed that NO ONE would switch to LRT from the bus and that the 21st St Station mentioned in this story would have equal ridership as the Uptown Transit Station. Ludicrous. We need to go back to the drawing board on this one. Routing it through Kenilworth is silly. It may be cheaper in total costs, but I guarantee it is not cheaper per rider. Uptown must be connected to the regional LRT system. The 3 densest census tracts in the state would be served by the 3C alignment.

[seanrichardryan]

http://m.startribune.com/opinion/?id=183436091&c=y

[mulad]

At this point I definitely don't want to start all over again, but if I had my way, the LRT line would have gone down Excelsior Boulevard rather than the railroad corridor, though I think it would still have been good to have a somewhat more express service along the rail line. It could be LRT, or it could be something of a commuter rail service (though ideally with smaller LRV-like trains rather than a big honking Northstar). That could have followed the rail line out to Chanhassen, or possibly rebuilt the necessary bits to get to Chaska. Or both.

[twincitizen]

As you can see, I typed that comment at 3:30 and the morning and it wasn't very articulate. The opinion piece smacks of NIMBYism in general, as other critical commenters suggest, and it completely failed to mention the other alternatives.

[UptownSport]

Smacks of Nimbyism? He want's the special tunnel just for him and his gentle neighbors.
Wonder how he gets to work.

[David Greene]

At this point I definitely don't want to start all over again, but if I had my way, the LRT line would have gone down Excelsior Boulevard.

I think an extended Como-Harriet line would work very well. Much of the original private right-of-way is still intact and in public hands. It would make a nice connection between Uptown (Downtown?) and Hopkins.

[woofner]

Trains must travel below grade from Lake Street to Penn Avenue

Sounds like the author thinks the lapping of the waves on the shores of Isles and Cedar are noise pollution, too, because a below-grade rail line would cut directly into their water table.

there should be no station at 21st Street

Now you're talking, Mr. NIMBY.

[twincitizen]

News items for today:

1. Another Patch opinion piece, this time by an old Hopkins business owner that doesn't get it.
The comments are spectacular though (no sarcasm).

2. URS due to lose Southwest LRT work (behind paywall)

3. Eden Prairie picked up a TOD grant from Met Council -- TOD Zoning District Ordinance, Eden Prairie--$60,000 to help the city, working with the public, develop a zoning ordinance for five future LRT stations in Eden Prairie that will promote walkable, pedestrian-oriented station areas and encourage land uses that support transit, including higher density redevelopment.

[Didier]

This isn't directly related to the Southwest Corridor, but the city/state/Metro Transit could do a much better public relations job in promoting the value of these light rail projects.

The Ryan/Star Tribune potential deal pretty explicitly makes clear that the nearby LRT station is a big reason they're interested. Development along University is already booming. Yet the same stupid, old-world perceptions leak into the comments every time.

[twincitizen]

That would actually be on Hennepin County to better promote projects in the pre-engineering phase. Local municipalities are probably the best bet to sell the benefits to residents, since they are the level of government that people identify with most and likely have a favorable view of. However, I can totally see how people who never use transit can only picture the negatives. They just don't understand it.

EDIT: An unlocked version of the URS contract fiasco story has been posted: http://finance-commerce.com/2012/12/urs ... rt-work-2/

[David Greene]

News items for today:

1. Another Patch opinion piece, this time by an old Hopkins business owner that doesn't get it.
The comments are spectacular though (no sarcasm).

Well, the author does have a point. Because of where it's routed, not too many LRT riders will even *see* downtown Hopkins, much less make a stop to eat or shop.

I think Hopkins lost a huge opportunity by not pushing for a Main Street alignment through Hopkins. It's not that far from the rail corridor, though it would have been more expensive, of course.

I still remember when US 169 went through and cut off Main Street. It almost killed downtown Hopkins.

If a downtown alignment was unrealistic (and I think it probably was), they could have *at least* used the old Hopkins Depot as a station!

The comments about TOD around the line are good, though. That's something the author clearly didn't consider.

[seanrichardryan]

You wouldn't want to use the old depot, it's on the other side of 169 from downtown.

[mulad]

This?


img_0362 by Mulad, on Flickr

It's west of US-169, so it's on the correct side of the highway, in my opinion...

I believe the depot is being used as an office for the Twin Cities & Western, though their main location is out in Glencoe.

[David Greene]

I believe the depot is being used as an office for the Twin Cities & Western, though their main location is out in Glencoe.

Maybe there are two depots. The one I'm talking about is now a coffee shop run by kids from the high school. It is east of 169, which I had forgot about. It wouldn't make much sense to put it there due to the freeway.

So Hopkins got screwed twice by that deal.