Street, Road and Highway Projects

[Korh]

I think some people might disagree, but thinking about some of the discussion about burying/cap and covering I-94, I kinda think highway 7 between 100 and 494 might be better suited in small sections in Hopkins and SLP.
I kinda view that section of 7 as what my parents used to say 169 was like before 1988 when it was still CASH 18 (even more so before Louisiana and Wooddale where grade separated), thinking about the current layout I don't see why Texas ave and Blake rd both have to connect, one can be removed and one can be separated like Wooddale. the crossings at 5th and 12th seems almost useless someone can point to some traffic volumes to say otherwise, that whole section can be shoved underground. and something could be done with hopkins crossroads and shady oak since IMO those are the two worst intersection on the highway

[rhettcarlson]

Not an engineer. Just a blind guy who travels independently around Minneapolis. My understanding is that the new ramps are meeting the ADA guidance while having the benefit of orienting visually impaired people to the crosswalk. The previous versions were almost certainly a cost saving measure and the design likely worked well due to the rounded off geometry of corners to facilitate faster car turning movements. IMO the new designs are great and I really appreciate them.

This is good input and I hope the city is hearing about it. Anyone have an example of new directional ramps under construction?

[blo442]

There are a lot of ADA ramps being reconstructed around town this spring. Purely anecdotal, but it seems like rebuilds done over the last couple of years featured a continuous, radiused ramp serving both directions. With this year's projects, it seems like most (but not all) ramps have two perpendicular ramps serving the two directions of travel. Any insight into this difference, or what criteria go into making a decision on this?

If anyone on this board is suffering from severe insomnia, the full PROWAG regulations on accessibility in the right of way are available at https://www.access-board.gov/prowag/ to help you get to sleep.

Having designed a few ramps myself, the separate directional ramps are preferred when possible. What's challenging is Minnesota's ADA standards state that the width of the curb ramp should match the width of the approaching sidewalk (typically 6-8' in Minneapolis) rather than just a flat 4' width as required by PROWAG. Often once you provide the wider ramps, there's no space in between them which results in the shared radial ramp design.

Minneapolis Public Works has in the past year or two explicitly stated a preference for two separate directional/perpendicular ramps at intersection quadrants. This is starting to be incorporated into designs, unfortunately sometimes the designers make it work by moving the ramp away from the intersection so it no longer lines up with the approaching sidewalk. See the new pedestrian median intersections on N Lyndale for an example.

One interesting note is that depending on which division of Public Works is directing the project, the intersection design can end up very different. If the project manager is in Traffic, they will prioritize meeting the truck turn movement requirements from the Street Design Guide, which typically result in a larger radius and combined radial curb ramps. If the PM is in Planning, they'll tell you it's ok if the trucks/buses can't make the turn if it allows for a shorter crossing & better ramps (and if the designer doesn't push back on that, Bryant Ave happens...).

There are other factors that go into the design, the Accessible Pedestrian Signal rules in PROWAG (which MN is one of the only states that's actually implemented to date) are very nitpicky and can lead to subpar ramp designs, and wide boulevards/bumpouts can make it a lot easier to design good ramps, among other factors. But I've already written a novel here.

[MNdible]

Thank you! Just the kind of response I was hoping for.

What's challenging is Minnesota's ADA standards state that the width of the curb ramp should match the width of the approaching sidewalk (typically 6-8' in Minneapolis) rather than just a flat 4' width as required by PROWAG. Often once you provide the wider ramps, there's no space in between them which results in the shared radial ramp design.

This bit here seems like it's probably the crux of the problem. If I were in charge, I'd say that it's less important to have the sidewalk width match if it allows you to a construct a geometry that works better for everybody. Obviously, a lot of this depends on situational awareness -- a lightly used sidewalk in a residential area is different than one downtown, etc.

Thinking about it more, I do suspect that the radial designs are easier for when the city clears out the sidewalk corners after heavy snows. They tend to do it with skid-steers or maybe even pickups, so the open geometry of the radial ramps is probably better for that.

Anyway, sorry for obsessing over this, but it does seem like a really important part of our built environment that we really haven't figured out yet.

[Wezle]

MNDOT shared a survey with information about University Ave NE improvements scheduled for 2027. Current mockups look pretty transformative for pedestrian access in Northeast and will really compliment the changes made this year and next year to Hennepin and 1st and University and 4th.

Take the survey here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3F5GL6B

[Nick]

That's one of the last four lane death roads!

[Silophant]

Yeah, with Central also up for reconstruction in 2028, it's probably time to start working on Hennepin County to finish the 4-3 conversion of Broadway from University to 94.

[alexschief]

Might finally be possible to cross the street to get to Hai Hai without risking your life.