urbanMSP

Yes, I meant it as both, not either or. This might need to be split off to the fantasy or general thread.

I’m not sure we’d call a line along 36 aBRT… but I’d also hope for a lower cost approach. Fill in the gaps on the map. Connect many lines with stops at Maplewood Mall (Purple Line end) to Rice (H), Rosedale (A) and then continue to NorthEast(E) and downtown. Perhaps a transfer to E would be required and avoid doubling the service. Today the 270 takes about 45 min from Maplewood to IDS with a stop at the Rice Park and Ride. I think stop locations would need to be improved to make the timing beneficial.

I'm a bit out of the loop on this project... is a White Bear Lake terminus completely out of the cards now? If so, that's disappointing. It would have been cool to get one of the further-flung streetcar suburbs reconnected to the transit network

I'm a bit out of the loop on this project... is a White Bear Lake terminus completely out of the cards now? If so, that's disappointing. It would have been cool to get one of the further-flung streetcar suburbs reconnected to the transit network

They will get local bus service from Maplewood Mall instead, St. John’s Hospital Area is the likely terminus now.


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In the latest committee meeting, the project team discussed that they want to get the total cost under $400 million so that they can go through the Small Starts program instead of the New Starts program. That is going to require some scope reduction, and they basically said going past Maplewood Mall puts the project cost too high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iojUKZ_NrxM

That's really unfortunate. It's beyond frustrating to me that one of the main things that stalled the project so long was the opposition in WBL. They really latched on to the "increase crime" and "ruin the character of our neighborhood" stuff, which is frustrating, but even more so considering that their historic, walkable downtown they were "defending" would not have existed if not for public transit investment. It's beyond me why someone would oppose such a great infrastructure investment!

In the latest committee meeting, the project team discussed that they want to get the total cost under $400 million so that they can go through the Small Starts program instead of the New Starts program. That is going to require some scope reduction, and they basically said going past Maplewood Mall puts the project cost too high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iojUKZ_NrxM

Technically, they said that the project cost, which includes 40% contingency at this point, has to be brought under $400M for small starts. At 30% design, contingency requirement is 33%. At 60% design, it's 27%. At 95% design/pre-bid, it's 20%. I think they said that the purple line is currently at 15% and 30% design for certain options/parts of the corridor.

Total costs can be brought under $400M for New Starts by cutting costs and/or funding some parts of the project separately. They do discuss sharing stations with the H Line along Maryland Ave if they go the Maryland/White Bear Ave route - so perhaps there is room for sharing costs in the accounting there. They could also advance the small St John's/County Rd D extension as part of the project planning (like what was done with Eden Prarie Town Center Station) to either be paid for by separate funding, or by contingency as design/engineering work advances.

This definitely can't/won't go to White Bear Lake, between funding limitations and a lack of support from the city of WBL thanks to nimbys.

The County Rd D stop that would be added along with the St John's stop would definitely be a nice addition, since it's right next to a bunch of housing and the pedestrian/bike connection over 694.

For the White Bear Ave options they are also discussing 1 vs 2 dedicated lane side running in the southern part of the corridor, and center running vs 2 side running for the dedicated lanes in the northern part of the corridor. 2 dedicated side running lanes on Maryland and southern WBA and center running in Maplewood would be great - especially with those bus lanes along Maryland being used by the H Line too.

From Union Depot to the Maplewood Mall transit center would cost $275M-$287M base, $104M-$108M contingency, for a total cost of $379M-$396M (the ranges are from the cost differences between the 1 lane/2 lane and side running/center running alternatives).

From Union Depot to St John's/County Rd D would cost $306M-$318M base, $117M-$123M contingency, for a total cost of $423M-$441M.

Metro Transit has a survey out for the Purple Line, as well as engineering drawings for the segment between Maryland Ave and Maplewood Mall.

There are also several meetings later this month.

https://www.metrotransit.org/purple-lin ... engagement

The BRT creep is real.

I hope they push for as much full dedicated ROW as possible, but I doubt it - center running lanes would be great.

Is it true that regular buses can't use the BRT bus stops? I regularly get off the bus by Pappy's at WBA and Maryland, and that would be problematic.

Also, do cars really stay out of the side-running lanes? The way I've seen cars barrel down the shared turn lane on Maryland makes me think people wouldn't hesitate to drive in the bus lane when they want to pass someone driving too slow.

Is it true that regular buses can't use the BRT bus stops? I regularly get off the bus by Pappy's at WBA and Maryland, and that would be problematic.

Also, do cars really stay out of the side-running lanes? The way I've seen cars barrel down the shared turn lane on Maryland makes me think people wouldn't hesitate to drive in the bus lane when they want to pass someone driving too slow.

No, regular buses can use BRT stops, that’s standard procedure for Metro Transit.


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Is it true that regular buses can't use the BRT bus stops? I regularly get off the bus by Pappy's at WBA and Maryland, and that would be problematic.

Also, do cars really stay out of the side-running lanes? The way I've seen cars barrel down the shared turn lane on Maryland makes me think people wouldn't hesitate to drive in the bus lane when they want to pass someone driving too slow.

Tbh we should get camera-enforcement for bus lanes in Minnesota. We should also use center-running bus lines whenever we can.

We should also use center-running bus lines whenever we can.

Still feel like we should try center-running bus lanes for ABRT somewhere, particularly on corridors with lots of on-street parking, curb cuts, and intersections. https://streets.mn/2018/05/08/a-centeri ... in-avenue/

Is it true that regular buses can't use the BRT bus stops? I regularly get off the bus by Pappy's at WBA and Maryland, and that would be problematic.

Also, do cars really stay out of the side-running lanes? The way I've seen cars barrel down the shared turn lane on Maryland makes me think people wouldn't hesitate to drive in the bus lane when they want to pass someone driving too slow.

Tbh we should get camera-enforcement for bus lanes in Minnesota. We should also use center-running bus lines whenever we can.

We have cameras mounted all over on light poles in St. Paul. The problem is, they don't work because the copper has been stolen from the ground up.

Is it true that regular buses can't use the BRT bus stops? I regularly get off the bus by Pappy's at WBA and Maryland, and that would be problematic.

Also, do cars really stay out of the side-running lanes? The way I've seen cars barrel down the shared turn lane on Maryland makes me think people wouldn't hesitate to drive in the bus lane when they want to pass someone driving too slow.

Tbh we should get camera-enforcement for bus lanes in Minnesota. We should also use center-running bus lines whenever we can.

We have cameras mounted all over on light poles in St. Paul. The problem is, they don't work because the copper has been stolen from the ground up.

They also have to make camera enforcement legal - I think there's legislation for this being introduced in the MN legislature this session, so contact your legislators to ask them to support it!