Northeast and Southeast Minneapolis - General Topics

[UrsusUrbanicus]

Also, how would they feed both a two way E Hennepin and First Ave across the Hennepin Avenue bridge? I keep thinking about it, but I just can't imagine what kind of interchange would be needed. Can anyone provide a similar example?

This was just a quick visual thought experiment before I hit the hay, and I'm not an engineer... I'm not even an especially geometric thinker... so someone please jump in if I missed a movement or a conflict. I'm wondering whether it might work to keep the spans themselves one-way and feed them from a single consolidated signal system covering Marshall, 1st, and Hennepin on the NE side, with some kind of multi-head left turn unit as the centerpiece, and appropriate channelization to direct 1st and Hennepin drivers who are heading for their respective "opposite" spans.

[RailBaronYarr]

I'm not sure why there's such a push for 2-way conversion. I agree that one-way pairs aren't ideal for transit (you cut your bi-directional walk-shed down), and even a calmed one-way with 2 lanes can still have pedestrian crossing issues at non-signalized intersections. But given the infrastructure that's there, I would think these cross sections could be very calm, give transit full priority through a pretty congested area (something that won't happen in 2-way conversion), and get a one-way protected cycle track in each direction. Only drawback is the reduction in parking to one side, but seems to tick enough positive multi-modal boxes to outweigh that drawback.

[Nathan]

yeah I spent a good amount of Google maps time thinking about it, and without taking all dt traffic in and out of ne on hen and making 1st end at the river it was really tough. I think that kind of traffic calming on the one ways would be sufficient

[twincitizen]

I'm not sure why there's such a push for 2-way conversion. I agree that one-way pairs aren't ideal for transit (you cut your bi-directional walk-shed down), and even a calmed one-way with 2 lanes can still have pedestrian crossing issues at non-signalized intersections. But given the infrastructure that's there, I would think these cross sections could be very calm, give transit full priority through a pretty congested area (something that won't happen in 2-way conversion), and get a one-way protected cycle track in each direction. Only drawback is the reduction in parking to one side, but seems to tick enough positive multi-modal boxes to outweigh that drawback.

This really does seem like the most straightforward and common sense way to reallocate the ROW. You get your traffic calming, you get your dedicated transit lane, you get your bikeway. I'm all for two-way streets, like everywhere, but this seems to be an instance where we might regret it. Not because of traffic congestion or backups or anything, but really just because of the bridge approach setup. Also, if you two-way Hennepin, what does that do to the ability of 1st Avenue to serve as a secondary retail street? I think making Hennepin a two-way could reduce the value of putting retail space in the Superior Plating redevlopment, for example.

Alex, you should revise your sections to show the transit on the inside lanes though. We already know that it will be running on the inside lanes of the bridge, and I believe they suggested in the plan documents that it would run in the left lanes of each street as well. Transit on the left, bike lanes on the right (to maintain consistency with the bridge). One really heavy turn I'm aware of is WB 1st Ave NE to NB University, so some extra protection for the bike lane would be necessary there.

With regards to your comment about the drawback of losing parking on one side, I think the presence of the streetcar lane does make up for it. With a streetcar only coming every 7.5-10 minutes, the calming effect that parked cars typically provide would still be present, as the lane would mostly be empty (assuming people don't drive in it!) As for the loss of parking, I'm sure it can be absorbed elsewhere. The Superior Plating site would be a great opportunity to locate some public/district parking, though the St. Anthony Main ramp ain't far away either.

[mattaudio]

The one reason why I like the idea of a 2 way 1st Ave NE is to solve skew and conflict points at Central / Hennepin intersection.

[lordmoke]

I'm not sure why there's such a push for 2-way conversion.

The neighborhood is pushing for it (at least partially) because of an uptick in traffic they've seen since the 35W bridge collapse. Apparently the influx of cars using Hennepin/ 1st while the bridge was gone has never subsided, and most of the vehicles using the road belong to commuters rather than people actually using or visiting the neighborhood. With the new 4th St to NB 35W ramp opening downtown soon, they want to push suburban commuters back onto the freeway. They've figured out a solution for the interchange with the bridge as well, though I haven't seen it.

[RailBaronYarr]

Alex, you should revise your sections to show the transit on the inside lanes though. We already know that it will be running on the inside lanes of the bridge, and I believe they suggested in the plan documents that it would run in the left lanes of each street as well. Transit on the left, bike lanes on the right (to maintain consistency with the bridge). One really heavy turn I'm aware of is WB 1st Ave NE to NB University, so some extra protection for the bike lane would be necessary there.

Yeah I just wanted to quick link to some images. When looking at them I saw some things I'd obviously tweak. Having them run on the inside lanes brings the 2 tracks closer to each other as well. And yeah, I think a full-on protected protected intersection for the cycle track would be in order (like the raised curb kind shown here)

With regards to your comment about the drawback of losing parking on one side, I think the presence of the streetcar lane does make up for it. With a streetcar only coming every 7.5-10 minutes, the calming effect that parked cars typically provide would still be present, as the lane would mostly be empty (assuming people don't drive in it!) As for the loss of parking, I'm sure it can be absorbed elsewhere. The Superior Plating site would be a great opportunity to locate some public/district parking, though the St. Anthony Main ramp ain't far away either.

Agreed. With all the residential consruction going on in this area plus improved transit (perceived & real), the loss isn't so bad. There's also the underground ramp by Our Lady of Lourdes that seems to be empty every time I've used it (wedding planning/baptism stuff).

The neighborhood is pushing for it (at least partially) because of an uptick in traffic they've seen since the 35W bridge collapse.

Seems that calmed 10 ft lanes, reducing one in each direction would have the same effect. I'm not questioning their motive, just the chosen strategy.

[mattaudio]

This could be a way to connect St. Anthony Main to the heart of Old St. Anthony via Hennepin, unskew the Hennepin/Central interchange making things less sucky for cars and pedestrians, and provide a true main street (maybe woonerfs for parking/access) and greenway with bidirectional streetcar. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... 8e0HT1QKnk

Hennepin Ave Proposed with Access Lane & Parking
http://www.streetmix.net/-/171465
(I'm sure there's a better way to create a woonerf that's friendlier to the greenway concept).

Hennepin Ave Carfree
http://www.streetmix.net/-/171467

1st Ave NE (bidirectional connection to Hennepin Ave bridge) midblock section
http://www.streetmix.net/-/171469
Sidewalks would be at least 11', and separated from travel lanes by parking lane or planters with bollards/fencing. Parking lane could alternate sides depending on demand. At intersections which require a LTL, parking lane could go away to enable refuge island. Granted, a design rooted in stroadiness, but if done with a boulevard mindset it could still be much nicer than what we have today.

[spearson]

Grain Belt sign could have a new owner:

http://grainbelt.com/news-press-room/

[Wedgeguy]

I hope that they can do something with LED that will look like Neon so that maintenance cost will be minimal. They tried to relight it once before in the 80's or 90's, but the cost of the neon up keep kept it from ever staying lit for very long. I'd like to see it relit again.

[spearson]

The Pillsbury sign on top of the mill just down the street has gone through a similar rehab. I think there was an article on the rehab as well as a city document outlining plan plus the cost savings. Basically it will get LED tube lighting that is just slightly different color-wise, but which results in massive energy and maintenance savings. I wish I had time to dig up what I read. If I recall, low 7 figures to do the rehab. Being that there is more to do with the GrainBelt sign, I would imagine a higher cost. Might be a lot for a small brewery, hopefully they can get some fundraising or grants to get it done.

[HiawathaGuy]

The Pillsbury sign on top of the mill just down the street has gone through a similar rehab. I think there was an article on the rehab as well as a city document outlining plan plus the cost savings. Basically it will get LED tube lighting that is just slightly different color-wise, but which results in massive energy and maintenance savings. I wish I had time to dig up what I read. If I recall, low 7 figures to do the rehab. Being that there is more to do with the GrainBelt sign, I would imagine a higher cost. Might be a lot for a small brewery, hopefully they can get some fundraising or grants to get it done.

I'm excited to see this happen! For the record, according to the Business Journal article: "Founded in 1860, August Schell Brewing is Minnesota's largest brewery." So it's not like they don't have some cash. Especially if they're buying this sign and the land it sits on!

[spearson]

Well the small plot is the last remaining plot owned by the Eastman family trust, which once owned the majority of Nicollet Island. Based on past news stories and from what I've read over the years it seems that the plot has been a nuisance for the Eastman family. Even though the sign is non-functional, I guess there has been plenty of maintenance cost to keep it clear of graffiti and other things. It also seems like the CEO of Schell and Eastman have been trying to workout transferring the sign for a long time but Schell has been wary of the cost. I bet Eastman is essentially giving the land to Schells in return for guaranteed restoration.

While Eastman has let the thing rot over the last 20 years, at least they've held on to it until it could be restored. They could have given in to all the NIMBY's that want it out of their sight. I know the NIMBY's have put up a stink about the possible advertising on the back side, so it'll be interesting to see what happens as this progresses.

[EOst]

Might be a lot for a small brewery, hopefully they can get some fundraising or grants to get it done.

I bought a bunch of Grain Belt today to... support them.

[Didier]

I seem to recall a story a while back about De La Salle students traditionally painting the sign as a senior prank, which was costing a lot to fix annually.

This was a while back, though, so maybe it's not an issue anymore. Anecdotally I made a joke about this the other day to a colleague with a daughter at De La Salle and he looked at me funny, which I took to mean it's not a thing anymore.

[mullen]

this is very cool. everytime i go by that sign i hope for it's restoration and re-lighting. we have a nice synergy of historic signage on the riverfront with gold medal flour, the pillsbury sign, north star blankets and grain belt.

[mamundsen]

I've noticed that recently there have been crews drilling samples at the triangle lot where Hennepin and Central intersect. I think the address is 420 E Hennepin. Is there a proposal for this site?

[lordmoke]

I've noticed that recently there have been crews drilling samples at the triangle lot where Hennepin and Central intersect. I think the address is 420 E Hennepin. Is there a proposal for this site?

Nothing public yet, but this is one spot I would love to see developed. The building has been vacant for a little while now. Curious though whether a potential development would involve just this angular parcel, or the adjacent building as well, as they have different ownership. Thanks for the sighting!

[seanrichardryan]

It's a remuddled gas station, so they're likely looking for pollution. It was once home to a lovely Queen Anne brick bank building....

[seanrichardryan]

430 E Hennepin circa 1940