urbanMSP

Wow, this really is the "second wave" of multifamily residential building in Edina. They didn't seem to have much in the 90s/00s, and the 80s/early90s stuff is rather tower-in-the-park with big setbacks and parking lots. Once Edina converts these stroads to multiway boulevards in the coming decades, they have a shot at being rather urban.

I'm still putting my money on SLP or bloomington over Edina. At least its not Woodbury though.

Easy to say that Southdale is a pitiful environment to bike around because it is. A true challenge to bike there safely casually. Quite possibly the mall owners realize how awful it is for cycling so they provide minimal bike racks. Even with the horrid bike accommodations ...


Southdale needs bike parking by xeoth, on Flickr

More than enough people are biking there, enough so they fill up the provided rack and use the sign posts near it. Most likely these are bikes used by employees working in the mall, which is a more dire problem because these bikes will be racked here for most of the shopping day leaving little room for anyone else.

Quite simply this photo I took is evidence Southdale Mall needs bike parking, badly.

That looks they've put bike parking in the armpit of the mall.

Just left of the photo is an entrance to Herbergers and to the right is a direct mall entrance. Behind is the transit station. Still a bit of an indictment of mall outside design.

Of note, that stone veneer in the photo is one of the few pieces of finish from when the mall opened in 1956.

Wow, this really is the "second wave" of multifamily residential building in Edina. They didn't seem to have much in the 90s/00s, and the 80s/early90s stuff is rather tower-in-the-park with big setbacks and parking lots. Once Edina converts these stroads to multiway boulevards in the coming decades, they have a shot at being rather urban.

I'm still putting my money on SLP or bloomington over Edina. At least its not Woodbury though.

As it stands today, I think the Southdale District has the greatest potential to be a "third downtown" (something Bloomington has stated as a hope for its abysmal "South Loop" around the megamall). Even today, it has a Walkscore that greatly exceeds most of Minneapolis -- it even exceeds, somewhat stupidly, the official walkability of 50th & France. What must continue to improve is the form of this high density of development. Edina is doing slightly worse than SLP in that regard, but leaps and bounds better than Bloomington. Better than Richfield on some direct comparisons too (like CVS at 69th and York versus 66th and Penn).

City council voting tonight on 66 West, the name of the 39 unit youth homeless shelter proposed for the TCF Bank site across from Southdale Center.

http://m.startribune.com/local/?id=273672321&c=y

City Manager of Edina, Scott Neal, tweeted that the council voted to approve 66 West.

StarTribune article noting people in suburbs liking the benefits of living in walking distance to nearly everything ... even if it means views of parking lots.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/274953191.html

When the original promenade plan for this area of Edina was released in 2007 it included 5 options for a tram/people mover route either at grade or elevated, does anyone know what happened to this plan?

StarTribune article noting people in suburbs liking the benefits of living in walking distance to nearly everything ... even if it means views of parking lots.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/274953191.html

This is great - it certainly shows that the desire for proximity and walkability is there for people with money who "don't want to live downtown" (ie high-rises, I guess?). And in a pragmatic sense, if these developments mean people walk to the mall (or drive all of 0.27 miles), then that's great, too. But it seems like there's something better than crossing 8 lane mega roads & windswept parking lots (with all the runoff/heat island effects). Do developers think that pedestrian-oriented, high-value mixed-use centers have only Taco Bells and drycleaners? Why would they have anything different than what's inside the malls today (Southdale doesn't have a Taco Bell, but it does have a DQ, Subway, and Smash Burger).

When the original promenade plan for this area of Edina was released in 2007 it included 5 options for a tram/people mover route either at grade or elevated, does anyone know what happened to this plan?

Hopefully burried deep.

Obviously there's not something better for these people or they wouldn't be living there. I'd certainly never buy a property that wasn't a single family home with a yard, but maybe they like being able to walk to Southdale while still having easy access to wide suburban roads and freeways for using their car on other trips, while not really caring about the view or living in a hip neighborhood. Probably not a lot of these people, but enough to fill a building.

I find the notion that [mixed-use development on calmed streets with ground-level retail that puts puts pedestrians first] means [people who like to drive fast on wide open roads would never live there] to be fairly unbelievable. I'd say pretty much any town or mid-sized city in Germany disproves this. Do you think folks living in the $1m condos at 50th/France have a hard time getting in their cars. Beyond the view, which do you think seniors (or young couples with kids) would prefer to walk around from a safety perspective?

50th and France is horrible to get around in in a car- no wide roads, double turn lanes, etc, and far from a freeway. The people that live there obviously value something else than getting around easy by car. Maybe the people living at Southdale do value getting around by car, or they'd buy at 50th and France instead. Different strokes for different folks.

50th and France isn't designed to be superb for cars. And since when is being far from a freeway bad? If it's different strokes of different folks we'll find out in public meetings and such. When I ask people who live near the major roads in EP like 5 and 212 they say that it didn't really influence their decision to buy, their decision was based on the community and the development of the city.

50th and France is horrible to get around in in a car- no wide roads, double turn lanes, etc, and far from a freeway.

Not sure if trolling or serious.

50th and France is horrible to get around in in a car- no wide roads, double turn lanes, etc, and far from a freeway.

Not sure if trolling or serious.

Well, clearly serious. But if "horrible to get around in a car" means the last 0.5 miles of your journey from Hwy 100 (traffic backs up to Wooddale) or 35W takes an extra 5 minutes during rush hour... I mean, 50th & France is a whopping 1 mile from 100 and 1.75 miles from Crosstown. The city offers free parking in numerous area ramps, with very few on-street spaces charging you money to park. I'd say it's pretty car-accessible. At the same time, despite the many, many lanes surrounding Southdale (Xerxes/York, 66th, and France), it still takes quite a while to get from 494 or 62 in to the parking lot.

50th and France is horrible to get around in in a car- no wide roads, double turn lanes, etc, and far from a freeway. The people that live there obviously value something else than getting around easy by car. Maybe the people living at Southdale do value getting around by car, or they'd buy at 50th and France instead. Different strokes for different folks.

I think you're way falsely assuming that people are moving to the Southdale District *because* of the big, horrible streets and not *in spite* of them. Southdale has a huge amount of amenities -- evidenced by its higher walkscore than 50th & France. France and Xerxes/York have long been big, horrible streets, but there seemed to be very little interest in residential in this area at all until Centennial Lakes. People value walkability -- in the 90s, walkability away from streets. Hopefully in the 2010s, that will extend to walkability along big streets, too.

And yes, given the ridiculous inefficiencies of the lights on 7+ lane France Ave, it probably takes much longer to access a freeway from 70th & France than from 50th & France.

Speaking of walkablity around Southdale, the Mall owner has been installing a lot of sidewalks. Plus with the sidewalks some new crossings are installed. Can't walk around the mega block entirely yet but great strides have happened from the disaster it was up until a year ago.