urbanMSP

Actually I'm saying that there currently is sufficient population within walking distance of this store for it to be up there with any city in the metro in terms of customers arriving on foot, by bike or by transit, contingent on Edina making a concerted effort to improve biking, walking and transit in the area. Since transit is the only one of these three with any amount of significant complexity or expense associated with its implementation, this hinges on political support, which I think is probably there, although maybe not at the level needed.

So I'm not sure I agree that you agree with me. Although I'm not sure that any grocery store in the Twin Cities sees less than 50% of their customers arriving by car, I would guess that the majority is not significant at the Wedge and the Downtown Lundses, and the trend has been for that majority to decrease. Whether that continues is dependent on fuel prices and political winds, and it's generational in a way that likely makes it less pronounced in Edina, but I would say that if the trends continue this Beyerly's could potentially a majority of their customers arrive without a car in the next 30 years.

Finally, I have to pick at the Byerly's guy's relation of shopping once or twice a week with arriving by car. Clearly the Lunds/Byerly's company has decided that two different types of stores are merited depending on whether their customers arrive by car or not. But I've been grocery shopping without a car for my entire adult life, and I typically go once a week. I certainly don't by the crusty overpriced buffet food at their Hennepin store. Which is good news for them once their new Byerly's proves to be a hit with urban Edina.

I won't speak for you, but I can say as somebody that similarly lived carless for a long period of time that the way I grocery shopped as a young, single, stubborn man is not necessarily representative of how moneyed 60 year-olds with easy access to a car would shop. People may love to walk or ride their bikes, but if these same people own a car, they're likely to decide that they'll drive that car when they know they'll have four bags of groceries to deal with, and save their bike ride for another time.

Let's say, though, that 60% of grocery shoppers arrived by non-car means. And let's discount the fact that those non-car customers are more likely buying just one or two meals worth of food rather than filling their carts. Even in that scenario, you're still going to have to provide a decent sized parking lot with easy access to the store. Your parking lot gets a little smaller, but it's not going away.

It's just a matter of getting a good design that allows the parking lot to work well with pedestrian access (while also accommodating a loading dock and the fact that grocery stores would rather not have windows to the exterior because you're taking away perfectly good merchandising locations). And in this case, you need to do it in such a way that allows you to build the new store while the old store is still operating. It's a tricky problem, and I think they did a decent enough job of solving it.

I guess I'm willing to take Lund's at their word: that they're not anti-pedestrian, and that they know their customers better than I (or other UrbanMSP retail experts) do.

I'm not sure who was suggesting that there shouldn't be parking here. I could easily be mistaken, but my impression is that the huge improvements in this latest iteration of the site plan were driven by Edina's input, not Lunds/Byerly's attitude towards pedestrians, and Vos' comments were a measured airing of their grievance against the city for having to change their design, which presumably introduced some delay into their process. I'm also happy with the site plan for phase I, although again it seems to me that credit is likely due to the Edina Planning Commission more than Lunds/Byerly's or Pope Architects for the result. I hope they correct the random placement of the phase II buildings to make a more consistent street wall though.

non-car customers are more likely buying just one or two meals worth of food rather than filling their carts.

Still disagree here. From what I observe, most non-car customers buy just as much as most car customers. And I wouldn't be too sure that Lunds/Byerly's know their customers' travel habits better than you or I do; if they've done much detailed analysis of travel habits (which I doubt), it was likely colored by the bias of the (likely) non-expert analysts. Instead I'd guess they just have a sense, like the rest of us, that most of their customers arrive by car, which isn't difficult to observe but is a facile treatment of the subject.

One last thing I'll point out - the fact that they plan to build the new store while continuing to operate the old one is a tacit acknowledgement that there is currently an oversupply of parking. I'll be interested to see if they use the phase II land for parking in the interim, which to my eye would use a comparable amount of land for parking as the current configuration.

Dur I should never say one last thing. Forgot to mention that the Southdale area of Edina has income characteristics more like Richfield (actually a bit less than most of Richfield) than the rest of Edina. So your anecdote about a health buff preferring to drive his beemer to the store rather than bike or walk is a bit out of place.

Seriously, take a look at the HTA index and/or an ACS data map sometime. In terms of density, income, cars per household, etc, the Southdale area resembles Uptown much more than it does the rest of Edina or even most suburbs, and depending on the stat this extends to the whole quarter of Edina south of the Crosstown and east of MN100.

Except even in uptown, Lunds gives preference to cars over pedestrians

Forgot to mention that the Southdale area of Edina has income characteristics more like Richfield (actually a bit less than most of Richfield) than the rest of Edina. So your anecdote about a health buff preferring to drive his beemer to the store rather than bike or walk is a bit out of place.

Seriously, take a look at the HTA index and/or an ACS data map sometime. In terms of density, income, cars per household, etc, the Southdale area resembles Uptown much more than it does the rest of Edina or even most suburbs, and depending on the stat this extends to the whole quarter of Edina south of the Crosstown and east of MN100.

I'll just note that there's a Cub at 68th and York.

I guess I hadn't previously seen a layout of the new Southdale Transit Center / P&R.

http://www.metrotransit.org/southdale-t ... -park-ride

I was under the incorrect assumptions that
a. There would be a parking ramp of several hundred spaces
b. That it would be tucked up in the corner of York & 66th.

I'm glad I was wrong on both counts. I never would have imagined that Southdale P&R only needs 70 dedicated spaces, with another 60 "overflow" spots reserved nearby. Obviously there are untold hundreds upon hundreds of other parking spots at the mall, but park & riders aren't supposed to use those. I'm extra glad that this arrangement in no way prevents development from happening at the corner of York & 66th. For under $1MM, this is a pretty nice improvement for current Southdale-area transit users and future residents at the apartments that will eventually/hopefully be developed in each of the 4 corners of Edina's asphalt mile.

Speaking of which.....any word on the progress of the apartments planned for York & 70th?

I wonder if this is because most people who live in first ring suburbs are also within walking distance to a bus stop, so park and rides aren't an essential part of their transit commute like they are outside the beltway.

Oh and if this station only needs 70 spaces, and the Lake Street park and ride on the Blue Line is never full, why do we need such massive park and rides on the urban stretches of Bottineau and Southwest?

Oh and if this station only needs 70 spaces, and the Lake Street park and ride on the Blue Line is never full, why do we need such massive park and rides on the urban stretches of Bottineau and Southwest?

Ding ding ding ding ding!!

Preliminary ground works have started on the apartment complex at 70th and York

I noticed that myself this past Wednesday. That corner is going to be much more interesting in a year or so. Relatively speaking, of course.

Edit: updated renderings in a STrib article: http://www.startribune.com/blogs/214613811.html

Additional info on One Southdale Place: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... aking.html

Hines plans Galleria updates/upgrades, possible expansion over surface parking area: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... nsion.html

As a South Edina resident, I wonder if the location is appealing enough for anyone to drop $ 1700-4500/mo on a rental. That's $700-1500 higher than the average in my neighborhood. Wouldn't Uptown be a more natural choice for yuppie empty-nesters?

But there's a lot of people who want to go urban without really going urban.

I have no idea how the Westin charges so much higher than the rest of the nice hotels on the 494 strip, but I guess they do.

Edina somehow excels at adding density without walkability. To me it has always been completely suburban and auto-depended but one can draw a finer distinction I guess.

Hines plans Galleria updates/upgrades, possible expansion over surface parking area: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... nsion.html

They're also talking of a new high-end restaurant, but I wish they'd add another quick cafe... Not all of their core shoppers are ladies who lunch (only the ones with time and money, I guess. ha).

the StarTribune has an article on this project. Which is underway. Plus info on other projects around the metro. http://www.startribune.com/business/218164171.html

Something is going into the NW corner of Old Navy's parking lot along France, right at the entrance to the Centennial Lakes parking ramps. They're pouring curb and gutter today and the outline of the pavement looks like a drive-through is included. I'm guessing some sort of fast food joint. Maybe McDonald's is coming back to that lot.

Regardless, it's tiny and uninteresting, but I wasn't expecting to see work going on there when I drove by today. All the real activity is further north, of course.