urbanMSP

The six story building is still very urban in context and sits very tight on the site. It's very "city looking" at least in my viewpoint. I think the truth of the matter is the neighborhood opposition has an almost paranoid preoccupation with height concerns, as if approving one taller building will open up the floodgates with 20 story towers popping up everywhere. This is simply not the case. I strongly doubt there's enough vacant or appropriately zoned land in this area to do that.

So... why doesn't Calhoun Beach Club set the precedent already?

Or Lake Point, or Dean Court, or Calhoun Place, or that tall skinny one behind the Jiffy Lube.

Same reason the Chateau didn't set the context in Dinkytown.

Or Lake Point, or Dean Court, or Calhoun Place, or that tall skinny one behind the Jiffy Lube.

The 11 story proposal and architecture would have complemented these buildings very nicely.

So I've noticed a sign on the site to the right of Calhoun Beach Club that the land is for sale (I believe) could this project, or something similar, go there instead? It wouldn't be blocking any views, the building next door is already about the same height... It seems a little odd that site hasn't been snatched up already.

Tommy, I think this site unfortunately faced the same issues as 3118 West Lake Street. Anyone feel free to correct me, but I recall the houses on the other side of the greenway being worried about shadowing etc. Then the housing market crashed so nothing came of it.
That's what I recall at least haha

There's a proposal in the works for that site as well, as hinted in recent posts on that CIDNA Land Use blog. Greystar (Elan Uptown) is the developer. I don't know if the neighborhood group has actually seen anything yet, but they are aware that Greystar is working on something. They'll be finishing up Elan's second phase later this year, so they could just roll right over to that project. I'd imagine we'll be hearing about something pretty soon.

If I were Trammel Crow I would have my architect design the ugliest ass building ever build just to spit CIDNA. Either that or build the biggest concert wall I could right up the Midtown Greenway. 56' tall running the entire length of the property even consider putting a subtle message or two on it well something like "CINDA SUCKS".

The amount of power that some neighborhood associations have would be absolutely laughable if they didn't kill so many good projects.

Here's the letter from Loop Calhoun Condos opposing the development: http://cidnalanduse.files.wordpress.com ... sition.pdf

CIDNA Land Use Committe meets again April 7 to consider the revised proposal: http://cidnalanduse.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ril-7-6pm/

Does anyone on the forum live in Cedar-Isles-Dean or know anyone that does?

I've heard they'll also be discussing the Earth's rotation and how it causes the Greenway to be dark for 12 hours a day. If anyone has any ideas on how to correct this injustice, please attend the meeting.

CIDNA Land Use Committe meets again April 7 to consider the revised proposal: http://cidnalanduse.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ril-7-6pm/

It's notable that under the list of changes, the loss of public greenspace isn't mentioned anywhere.

There's a proposal in the works for that site as well, as hinted in recent posts on that CIDNA Land Use blog. Greystar (Elan Uptown) is the developer. I don't know if the neighborhood group has actually seen anything yet, but they are aware that Greystar is working on something. They'll be finishing up Elan's second phase later this year, so they could just roll right over to that project. I'd imagine we'll be hearing about something pretty soon.

Well that was fast: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2366

If I were Trammel Crow I would have my architect design the ugliest ass building ever build just to spit CIDNA. Either that or build the biggest concert wall I could right up the Midtown Greenway. 56' tall running the entire length of the property even consider putting a subtle message or two on it well something like "CINDA SUCKS".

The amount of power that some neighborhood associations have would be absolutely laughable if they didn't kill so many good projects.

The Midtown Greenway Coalition wields significant power with Z & P and/or City Council. Or, they did with the last Z & P and City Council. I guess it remains to be seen if they will be as influential with the current agencies.

The MGC will VEHEMENTLY fight any proposal that shadows the Greenway at ANY time. They forced alterations of the Lime project at 29th and Lyndale because there was wintertime shadowing.

Pushing this building up against the Greenway achieves nothing other than angering the Midtown Greenway Coalition AND CIDNA - not a recipe for getting projects approved in the city.

Having said all of that, it is VERY tempting to spit in the eye of some of the irrational groups and restraint is sometimes difficult especially when you have facts/data/science on your side.

I never did understand what the big deal is about having shadowing on the greenway... aren't people just biking through anyway, so does it matter if there is a shadow for a moment while they go past? It seems as if there would be shadowing from Mozaic? How did that go through?

I think the shadowing complaint has more to do with ice in the winter.

Yes, ice melt is the big issue. This project should be less objectionable -- the Greenway is rising up to a berm instead of down in the trench, and the building is oriented N-S rather than E-W.

And from my experience, it's total nonsense. The trench itself and bridges shadow the trail somewhat. It's just a mess of ice-ruts down there. Unless we're going to triple the maintenance budget, plow to bare pavement, salt, etc., a couple tall buildings will have next to zero effect on winter months conditions on the Greenway.

In a perfect world, we'd completely rebuild the busiest parts of the trail when the Midtown LRT goes in and put heating elements under the pavement.

*after I typed that, I realized this building is in the non-trench part of the Greenway

If I were Trammel Crow I would have my architect design the ugliest ass building ever build just to spit CIDNA. Either that or build the biggest concert wall I could right up the Midtown Greenway. 56' tall running the entire length of the property even consider putting a subtle message or two on it well something like "CINDA SUCKS".

The amount of power that some neighborhood associations have would be absolutely laughable if they didn't kill so many good projects.

Having said all of that, it is VERY tempting to spit in the eye of some of the irrational groups and restraint is sometimes difficult especially when you have facts/data/science on your side.

Well spiting the eye of CINDA was kinda the point of the wall. The Greenway would have sadly been collateral damage.

And from my experience, it's total nonsense. The trench itself and bridges shadow the trail somewhat. It's just a mess of ice-ruts down there. Unless we're going to triple the maintenance budget, plow to bare pavement, salt, etc., a couple tall buildings will have next to zero effect on winter months conditions on the Greenway.

In a perfect world, we'd completely rebuild the busiest parts of the trail when the Midtown LRT goes in and put heating elements under the pavement.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct in everything that you just said.

1. Ice melt is ENTIRELY dependent on the thermal mass of the pavement being exposed to sunlight. If the pavement is NOT clear then sunlight will be reflected back up. This is the simple science. However, the Midtown Greenway Coalition will not listen to reason on this point. They also claim that maintenance of the Greenway is very good and that the pavement IS regularly exposed to sunlight. I challenge anyone to go out to the Greenway after a snowfall event in the winter and look at the path from Hennepin to points east and take a look at the path and document the maintenance/how well the pavement is exposed. I'm talking about days after a snow event.

2. It is my contention that having "eyes on the Greenway" is a very valuable thing especially in light of the fact that attacks seem to happen regularly - ESPECIALLY in the trench portion. Instead of pushing buildings AWAY from the Greenway, we should be bringing buildings CLOSER to the Greenway.

3. As you point out, the net effect of the trench, the plant life and the chain link fence is almost exactly equivalent to established setback requirements/zoning code requirements for height. The bridges are a very significant contributor to shadowing, especially in the morning and evening in the winters (commute times...hello?!).

4. I think the Greenway is an amenity that is worth great consideration. Instead of taking up contentious arguments with developers, the MGC should consider what it could do to work WITH developers and the city for a better outcome. This suggestion is about three years too late but I have a solution that I would love to see adopted by the Midtown Greenway Coalition and the city of Minneapolis: a park dedication fee for projects adjacent to the Greenway. The MGC contends that "development wouldn't be happening in these areas if not for the Greenway" and there is some truth to that. If a park dedication fee were established for development along the Greenway, this could fund better maintenance and a continuous snow melt system - addressing shadowing/ice problems at the bridges and other areas that have nothing to do with buildings along the Greenway- win + win.

http://www.southwestjournal.com/notes/n ... not-oppose

Yuck. Really preferred the original 11-story design for so many reasons. It's too bad Minneapolis' fear of height caused this project to transform into a much more aesthetically bland and bulky building. Beats a parking lot, I guess.

And speaking of which, it's too bad Loop Calhoun and this project can't just share a curb cut. As we all know this is a terrible area for walking. Missed opportunity (in general) to help improve that with this project.