Vikings Stadium Legislation/Financing Package

[xandrex]

And where exactly does your understanding of the civic value of pro sports teams come from? Every single study I've seen says it's a wash at best, and a fleecing of the public at worst (and most lean towards the latter).

I imagine he was using the definition of "civic value" that refers to the intangibles (not the cold, hard economics).

I'm not defending it (or arguing it). Just clarifying how I read it.

[John21]

The Vikings didn't have anywhere to go. The league loves having Los Angeles teamless, as it allows them to blackmail any city with a "poor" stadium situation. They'll want an expansion team or two in L.A. The expansion fee a new team would have to pay would be huge. Our politicians were taken to the cleaners by the Wilfs/NFL. They helped ensure that a large amount of Minnesota money will be flying out of town every Sunday to New Jersey.

[Nick]

[twincitizen]

Point of clarification please!

How is the state currently paying for this? In the 2013 budget they paid for that year's obligations by taxing retailers existing floor stock of tobacco products (the ongoing tobacco tax increase is not paying for the stadium). The e-pulltab thing has been a colossal failure, and one of the manufacturers of the devices even pulled out (or went under).

I recall there was some kind of obscure corporate tax loophole that was supposedly closed that was going to generate a certain number of millions/year, but that's not enough, is it? I mean, is that even a real funding source, or is that just a sneaky way of moving money around to pretend like it isn't coming out of the general fund?

In summary, has the state's portion of the funding been resolved on a long-term basis? Or is this something that a future legislature is going to have to address?

[RailBaronYarr]

http://blogs.mprnews.org/stadium-watch/ ... l-is-done/

So they issued appropriation bonds rather than general obligation bonds. Appropriation bonds come with a "moral obligation" to pay back should revenue sources default, but the state technically isn't legally bound to do so. Which is why interest rates were higher (more risk to bond holders) than a general obligation bond where the full faith and credit of the state backs the bond (and defaulting means they are required to pay it back somehow through general revenue sources).

Kinda tricky, but my guess is that the state will have to figure the funding out on a long-term basis else their credit take a hit.

[Tyler]

In summary, has the state's portion of the funding been resolved on a long-term basis? Or is this something that a future legislature is going to have to address?

Isn't Minneapolis likely to cover it with the above mentioned taxes? I know those monies will be going into the general fund (and are not guaranteed), but what would prevent them from being used by the state for the stadium? It seems to me we're going to end up with the city paying ~ five times as much as the state for this thing.

[twincitizen]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain it was put into the bill that Minneapolis' hospitality taxes couldn't be used to pay for the state's portion of the debt. RT Rybak is probably a good person to ask that question.

Anyways, this shed some more light: http://blogs.mprnews.org/stadium-watch/ ... s-stadium/

I had always wondered if taxes on paper pulltabs also contributed to the stadium, and as it turns out, they do. The state anticipates $7.7MM/year from taxes on charitable gambling and $20MM/year from the closed corporate tax loophole. Is that enough to make the payments on the $348MM+interest state portion? (I'm not even going to try to calculate interest over 30 years, but I bet the figure is available somewhere)

[mattaudio]

Wow, good catch on that closed corporate loophole. Just when I thought the discussion surrounding stadium financing couldn't be less honest, I realized I forgot about that. Just think if we closed the loophole and spent that money on practically anything else, like education, transit, or affordable housing.

[Tyler]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain it was put into the bill that Minneapolis' hospitality taxes couldn't be used to pay for the state's portion of the debt. RT Rybak is probably a good person to ask that question.

But couldn't they just shift the money around? Have the hospitality tax pay for X, and use whatever mechanism was funding X to instead pay down the stadium debt? Maybe the stipulations are more sophisticated and would prevent that somehow.

And that article is not really clear to me. Are we sure the corporate tax is being thought of as the long term solution?

[alleycat]

Are we sure the corporate tax is being thought of as the long term solution?

Unless the e-pulltabs miraculously recover the corporate tax loophole IS the primary long-term funding source. It was supposed to be a part of the governor's tax reform push and go to the general fund, but was repurposed to fill the stadium funding gap.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23258665/v ... rate-taxes

[RailBaronYarr]

So basically, current general fund money is a no-go for the stadium cuz that would mean broken promises. But any money they can find that would have otherwise been general fund money (and could reasonably be used for programs or to reduce regressive taxes like sales tax, etc) are a-ok to divert into paying for the stadium.

[MNdible]

Well and properly beaten.

[talindsay]

It was great for winter running. A rubber track surface would have been better, but I doubt the new stadium well have that either.

For community purposes the new facility isn't likely to be appreciably different from the Metrodome. It would be awesome if they chose to explicitly design accommodations for popular community uses but I don't expect it.

[mplsjaromir]

This is good/funny.

http://tcsidewalks.blogspot.com/2014/10 ... aphor.html

[seanrichardryan]

'Vikings stadium makes MarketWatch list of 'Worst Deals from Sports Teams'

http://www.minnpost.com/political-agend ... orts-teams

[John21]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Stadiums (HBO)

[Didier]

'Vikings stadium makes MarketWatch list of 'Worst Deals from Sports Teams'

http://www.minnpost.com/political-agend ... orts-teams

Not disagreeing with the message, but what is MarketWatch?

[mulad]

They've been around for a pretty long time at this point (founded 1997). They'd been partnered with CBS news and had TV reports for many years. They're currently owned by Dow Jones.

I think they may have had a presence in the Twin Cities in the past, but I might be thinking of some other company.

[mattaudio]

"This iconic stadium has already attracted nearly $1 billion in private investment, which was one of the state's major goals for the stadium," said Michele Kelm-Helgen, chair of the Minnesota Sports Facility Authority.
http://www.startribune.com/stadium-more ... 317555111/

Uh, what? There is no chance this is true.

[seanrichardryan]

Wells Fargo $400m
Thresher Sqaure $100M
Radisson Red $?
Ryan Co. Apartments $?
Armory $?

Some might include Portland Tower...