Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

[a_tribe_called_chris]

I am new here so hopefully I don't start out making enemies. The biggest issue facing transit here is that we need to get more funding as a metropolitan area and you won't get buy in from everyone unless you improve both freeways and transit.

There seems to be a significant amount of misrepresentation directed towards Brooklyn Park and its terminus for the Blue Line extension all over this board.

First, Brooklyn Park and Center are more diverse than Minneapolis and St Paul. The claim I read about a fear of thugs from the northside is ridiculous and just makes this poster seem unfamiliar with BP and BC. Those “thugs” are already out here lol.
Second, stop talking about cornfields. The cornfield across from North Hennepin Community College (not Hennepin Tech as others have mis-stated) has already been decided as the site for the new BP Library. The Cornfield across from Target is the site for a Park and Ride and likely a Metro Transit Maintenance facility. Ironically this alignment passes through some of BP’s most dense areas south of Brooklyn Blvd while north of 85th you have the last remaining portion of the city that is undeveloped. Based on the results of the Green Line I would expect (and am advocating to my council representatives) more dense land use around this. There have been preliminary plans for upscale apartments in the area to house Target employees. BP also has a high concentration of some of the most affordable apartments in the metro not far from Starlight Center that are served by buses that can connect them with the new line as well as within walking distance along West Broadway. Another poster mention Joy Marsh Stephens who is running for mayor and I would agree her platform and goals toward equity and celebrating our city’s diversity are the most likely to leverage this line for good development. Also, with her receiving the DFL nomination I have a feeling our current mayor Lunde will be on his way out and rightfully so.

Third this routing seems to work best considering what it connects. The Green Line is nice but it takes 45 minutes to get from Minneapolis to Union Station which is slower than the bus it replaced. They should have just used a modern street car on this line since they didn’t give the line a dedicated right of way. Finding stretches to pick up speed make sense. Running through the heart of the northside doesn’t make sense as you have community resistance (memories of 94 and 35 cutting through communities) as well as no easy way to give the line good right of way. I agree that running a street car line from say 36th ave in Robbinsdale to serve North Memorial and then down West Broadway into Minneapolis. Perhaps this could even connect to the SW line. There are jobs at both ends of the Blue Line with this configuration.

Another common them I noticed on this thread is this sense of us versus them. Transit needs dedicated funded. Look at how Denver RTD too k their system to a whole new level. They are building multiple lines at once since their taxpayers voted for a dedicated tax to fund it. You know why? Because their leaders actually called out specific projects and mixed Highway expansions and Transit and voters could see that there was a benefit for everybody. That is what we need here. I support transit and love to use it but also we should have modern highways that can have capacity such as widening I-94 between St Cloud and the metro. It is easier to work together than sit and bicker about poor development choices. The reality is most the suburbs here came of age during auto dependent times. Now it is time to fill in transit and do what we can to encourage the build up of density.

I also don’t understand why some are hating on Park and Ride’s. Transit should serve everybody. BP has one of the P&R’s with the highest ridership metro-wide at Noble Pkwy and 610.

[Silophant]

Welcome to the board! I hope you stay, since having more suburbanites will keep this place from becoming too much of an echo chamber. I don't think you'll make enemies here, unless you start making up rumors of supertalls or telling everyone that everything they do and like is terrible or something like that.

[lordmoke]

Hooray, someone else from BP! (I don't live there any more, but I grew up there.)

I am very excited for this line. The cornfields thing bugs me too.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

Hooray, someone else from BP! (I don't live there any more, but I grew up there.)

I am very excited for this line. The cornfields thing bugs me too.

I know right, I was thinking "yes, the line stops at a cornfield and you walk into the field of dreams."

Interestingly enough the land owner is now looking to develop that area.

[mplsjaromir]

Mostly agree with a_t_c_c, my only quibbles would be the thoroughly debunked talking point that the Green Line is slower than the buses it replaced. The Green Line is faster than both the 16 and 50 streets. End to end time should not be the only metric.

My other objection is that Denver's regional planning something anyone should want to emulate. Their light rail lines are similar to SWLRT except they run in freeway medians so there is zero chance for TOD. In the next year the Blue and Green Line ridership will likely eclipse the combined ridership of Denver's six lines. They built a system that focused on amount of track laid, not mobility. I mean transit service from the airport to downtown was a once an hour coach that you had to have $11 in exact change to board, pretty pathetic IMO.

[Tcmetro]

The Transportation Committee of the Met Council will be awarding the contract for the engineering of the line tomorrow, following last month's notice to proceed by the FTA. Estimated cost is $1 billion, with a 2021 opening.

Additionally, Hennepin County will no longer be updating their webpage about the Bottineau Blue Line Extension. All updates will be on the Met Council page.

http://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meeting ... 8-ppt.aspx

http://www.metrocouncil.org/Transportat ... nsion.aspx

[David Greene]

I also don’t understand why some are hating on Park and Ride’s. Transit should serve everybody. BP has one of the P&R’s with the highest ridership metro-wide at Noble Pkwy and 610.

I'm not hating on park and rides per se but I am hating on luxurious park and rides. We spend millions and millions of dollars on really nice heated facilities with all sorts of amenities while transit-depends urban areas get poles in the ground. That is wrong.

[mattaudio]

I'll hate on park and rides *per se*

[FISHMANPET]

I'll also hate on park and rides, considering the subsidy per rider is so much higher.

As Captain Renault says, I'm shocked, shocked to find that transit is much more expensive to provide in areas built around the car.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

Sure the subsidy is higher for park and ride riders but they are helping to alleviate congestion by making the choice to use transit for the remainder of their commute. Transit, just like automobiles, is heavily subsidized. I am not one of those dillusional people who would pretend that the gas taxes and license fees for automobile covers their associated cost but the same is true for transit. Its operating revenues do not really cover its operating costs and I am perfectly fine with that.

What is gained by essentially alienating a potential transit ally? Park and Riders utilize them because they are convenient and they too would like to ease congestion. I would make the assumption that many of these users also see the benefit to building up better transit systems. The reality is that the suburbs around here are incredibly auto-dependent and you cannot change it overnight. The suburb to suburb busing is horrible. You have to practically go downtown to transfer to another bus.

Another poster had a fair point about the lack of good shelters in many transit dependent areas. I would agree that these too should be retrofitted with heat and the appropriate amount of space for those waiting for a bus although this can be challenging when there virtually no unused space available as the examples I have seen around north Minneapolis.

[David Greene]

I would make the assumption that many of these users also see the benefit to building up better transit systems.

That is very true, and it goes for people driving too. Sometimes I think some people on here haven't really talked to a lot of suburbanites. The Strib comment boards are not representative. Suburbanites are not our enemy.

Another poster had a fair point about the lack of good shelters in many transit dependent areas. I would agree that these too should be retrofitted with heat and the appropriate amount of space for those waiting for a bus although this can be challenging when there virtually no unused space available as the examples I have seen around north Minneapolis.

We don't have enough money to put heat everywhere. Sidewalk space isn't that big an issue for a lot of these places. We need to limit what we put into those suburban park and rides and use that money to provides shelters (with heat at major use points) in urban areas. We can't do both right now.

[talindsay]

Sure the subsidy is higher for park and ride riders but they are helping to alleviate congestion by making the choice to use transit for the remainder of their commute.

They can sit in congestion, it's a mess of their own making. Those of us who live in the city help alleviate congestion by not contributing to it in the first place.

[IllogicalJake]

Sure the subsidy is higher for park and ride riders but they are helping to alleviate congestion by making the choice to use transit for the remainder of their commute.

They can sit in congestion, it's a mess of their own making. Those of us who live in the city help alleviate congestion by not contributing to it in the first place.

The whole shaking hands with a clenched fist thing again...

[Rich]

Those of us who live in the city help alleviate congestion by not contributing to it in the first place.

Don’t those who park and ride also help alleviate congestion by not contributing to it in the first place?

[FISHMANPET]

No, it sounds like a pretty silly idea to me. "You should subsidize our park and rides, because if you don't, we'll just drive, and you won't be effected by it anyway!"

E: this is a complicated nuanced thing, but I still think that's just a really bad argument if you play it out logically.

[mattaudio]

At massive expense. Alleviating congestion for those who choose to live in auto dependent land uses is a subsidy of their lifestyle no matter what form it takes.

[EOst]

Can we just have a single thread for this instead of having this argument on every thread in the forum?

[mattaudio]

We're building expensive shit, documented by nearly every thread on the forum.

[EOst]

Why even have multiple threads if you're going to force every one to be on the same topic?

[mattaudio]

Can we just have a single thread for this instead of having this argument on every thread in the forum?

I'll just make it simple.

No.