Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

[IllogicalJake]

Nah, you brought up one of the taboo topics. Now everyone has to make sure their opinion is stated and defend it to the death.

Hey, there's another one below me now. Pesky those are. Try not to mention Sports while we're here, either.

[Minneapolisite]

I love how we're expected to believe that the same people who refuse to pay their fair share for the roads they drive on will magically pay their fair share into a mass transit system.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

No, it sounds like a pretty silly idea to me. "You should subsidize our park and rides, because if you don't, we'll just drive, and you won't be effected by it anyway!"

E: this is a complicated nuanced thing, but I still think that's just a really bad argument if you play it out logically.

Who said that though? I didn't. I wouldn't think of it as being anymore subsidized than LRT. Again, I support transit but you aren't going to solve anything by talking trash. Who is really subsidizing whom in this matter anyway? I work downtown and live in BP which may be a suburb in design but urban in demographics.

Considering MSP combined are about 780k they comprise about 1/4th of the 7 county metro. Are you instead suggesting the remaining 3/4ths subsidize LRT that only benefits MSP?

[David Greene]

It's really useless to argue about subsidies like this. Every form of transportation is subsidized. Yes, groups have to work together to get funding for transit and that includes working with roads groups. Yep, it's unpalatable. I've sat in many a coalition meeting silently shaking my head but I kept my mouth shut because I knew the immediate goal was more important and we can fix the long-term stuff.

Yep, there's a point where that alliance is no longer advantageous for transit folks. We might in fact be there now, I don't know. But we'll get there if we're not.

One thing I *do* know is that railing against the suburbs is going to result in reduced political support for transit, to the point where we won't get any new funding.

The election this November is absolutely crucial. You may be inclined to support Jeff Johnson because he's said he'll kill SWLRT but do you really think he'll stop there? Remember, he'd appoint an entirely new Met Council. Pissing off suburbanites over transportation is going to drive them to Johnson.

And then there's the House, which would have equal power to kill transit funding in transit-unfriendly hands.

Yep, the DFL majorly screwed over the state by not addressing transportation last session. I'm pissed at them big time for that. But unfortunately, they're what we have to work with.

[mattaudio]

Not sure how anyone in the city would be inclined to support Jeff Johnson, as bad as Dayton is when it comes to structural reform of how we spend on mobility. We are really in a situation this fall with two awful candidates, and choosing the lesser of two evils. Really unfortunate.

[HiawathaGuy]

Not sure how anyone in the city would be inclined to support Jeff Johnson, as bad as Dayton is when it comes to structural reform of how we spend on mobility. We are really in a situation this fall with two awful candidates, and choosing the lesser of two evils. Really unfortunate.

This thread... wow.

[David Greene]

Not sure how anyone in the city would be inclined to support Jeff Johnson, as bad as Dayton is when it comes to structural reform of how we spend on mobility.

The LRT Done Right people are saying they're going to support Johnson. I honestly believe some of them actually will. Not that it will matter in the grand scheme of things but it absolutely is the case that pissing off suburbanites over transportation will drive them to Johnson, and the suburbs hold the numbers.

[David Greene]

And to equate Johnson and Dayton as awful and making the "lesser of two evils" argument is just...I don't even know how you got to that point.

[HiawathaGuy]

I for one think it's very exciting that the Blue Line extension is moving forward. I think having a regional transit system, comprised of multiple transit options makes the entire metro area far more competitive nationally and globally. It's no surprise that MSP just bumped ahead of Detroit in GDP for 2013, making us the 13th highest in the US. Establishing Minneapolis and St. Paul as our commercial and employment centers through thoughtful planning of transit nodes makes even more sense moving forward. The Green & Blue Line extensions do that, and will continue to help our metro prosper. I do not want to go backwards. To have 25 more track miles come online in 2019 & 2021, to catapult our regional rail ridership to 100,000+ riders/day would be a huge achievement.

[HiawathaGuy]

And to equate Johnson and Dayton as awful and making the "lesser of two evils argument" is just...I don't even know how you got to that point.

Thank you, I couldn't quite state that as eloquently as you. It doesn't take too many examples (look at Wisconsin vs. Minnesota leadership/jobs/growth/etc. for instance) to see that there is no argument. If you want to look specifically at transit, again, look at Wisconsin vs. Minnesota...

[mattaudio]

And to equate Johnson and Dayton as awful and making the "lesser of two evils argument" is just...I don't even know how you got to that point.

Here's another one. I'll equate Amy Klobuchar to Michele Bachmann... they both supported the "bipartisan" St. Croix Bridge to Nowhere. See the trend?

[mattaudio]

t doesn't take too many examples (look at Wisconsin vs. Minnesota leadership/jobs/growth/etc. for instance) to see that there is no argument. If you want to look specifically at transit, again, look at Wisconsin vs. Minnesota...

Yes, wreckless spending on roads with a pittance of spending on transit is indeed marginally better for society than wreckless spending on roads with no spending on transit. But are those our only two options? Sad.

[David Greene]

Here's another one. I'll equate Amy Klobuchar to Michele Bachmann... they both supported the "bipartisan" St. Croix Bridge to Nowhere. See the trend?

Let's see...you're not interested in anything but transportation and land use?

[a_tribe_called_chris]

Not sure how anyone in the city would be inclined to support Jeff Johnson, as bad as Dayton is when it comes to structural reform of how we spend on mobility. We are really in a situation this fall with two awful candidates, and choosing the lesser of two evils. Really unfortunate.

What about Hannah Nicollet? I can't stand Dayton and Johnson doesn't appeal to me either.

[Silophant]

I just skimmed through her issues webpage, and as far as I can tell, she's got the same views as the Republicans, just a little less insane about certain social issues. As far as transportation goes, she's gonna be exactly the same as Johnson would. (i.e. no money for anything but MOAR HIGHWAYS). The Blue Line extension straight up will not happen if anyone but Dayton gets the Governor's seat this November.

[mattaudio]

Let's see...you're not interested in anything but transportation and land use?

When it comes to discussion about political impacts to a particular light rail extension, on a message board that discusses transportation and land use, yes.

When it comes to things other than corporate welfare, stadiums, transportation and land use, then of course Dayton is miles ahead. But those aren't the issues I'm talking about here.

[David Greene]

You can't equate politicians on one issue. I agree that on transportation Dayton has been a failure. But he's been surprisingly good on a lot of other things. What has Johnson ever done? To me there is no comparison.

[mattaudio]

I'm not disagreeing with you.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

You can't equate politicians on one issue. I agree that on transportation Dayton has been a failure. But he's been surprisingly good on a lot of other things. What has Johnson ever done? To me there is no comparison.

The reason I won't vote for Dayton again is how he fumbled the medical cannabis issue. He supported the horribly designed legislation that passed compared to the Senate's version which would have covered many conditions and allowed plant cannabis, not only oils & extracts, while still being the most restrictive program to date. Instead Dayton backtracked and decided to support the version passed through the House. The Law Enforcement lobby ruled him on the issue. That alone does him in for me.

But, to be fair his handling of the Vikings stadium & MnSure would also be enough. But now he wants to criticize Adrian Peterson too? No, I can't stand to see him on TV for another term.

Trying to get back on topic Brooklyn Park has the following site up to solicit input for the 610 Corridor. Feel free to join me in pushing for higher density mixed use planning.

http://brooklynpark.mindmixer.com

[HiawathaGuy]

The reason I won't vote for Dayton again is how he fumbled the medical cannabis issue. He supported the horribly designed legislation that passed compared to the Senate's version which would have covered many conditions and allowed plant cannabis, not only oils & extracts, while still being the most restrictive program to date. Instead Dayton backtracked and decided to support the version passed through the House. The Law Enforcement lobby ruled him on the issue. That alone does him in for me.

But, to be fair his handling of the Vikings stadium & MnSure would also be enough. But now he wants to criticize Adrian Peterson too? No, I can't stand to see him on TV for another term.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment...
Medical Cannabis - no law, not even the "Law Enforcement lobby-rule of Dayton" would have been supported by any GOP Governor. Vikings Stadium - I highly doubt we'd be seeing a $1 billion dollar stadium being built in DTE, or the other $500+ million nearby with any GOP Governor. MnSure - we probably wouldn't have a state-run insurance program with the 2nd lowest uninsured rate in the US if we had a GOP Governor.

Dayton may not be perfect, but he's a FAR better Governor than Senator (not that that was hard, because he sucked) - but he's certainly handled the horrible state our State was in with a lot better outcome than TPAW. Just my 2 cents.

As David stated, the only option we have for expanding transit plans will be to return Dayton to office, so he and the Legislature can actually work on real progress in that regard.